Pronoun rules at work

[RatinaMaze]

My workplace have just announced that “they/their” pronouns will be used for all staff members by default now. Apparently this neutral pronoun removes any unintentional offence and normalises non-binary colleagues. There is a caveat though; staff members who have transitioned may feel upset by not being able to use the pronoun aligned to their gender so, in these cases, the individuals can use he/him or she/her as appropriate.

Let me repeat this. Biological men and women are no longer allowed to use he/she pronouns in the workplace but transpeople are.

You know what would normalise non-binary? Encouraging bio-males to use he/him and bio females to use she/her but doing so while wearing what they want and pursuing whatever hobbies they want. Susan in Accounts might have shaved her head, wears no make-up and enjoys taking cars apart at the weekend while Mike in Marketing might wear eyeliner and/or a dress and spend his evening decorating cupcakes. That is called having a personality and it is already normal. I don’t know anyone who lives every minute of their lives in a way that adheres to the stereotype of the gender norm that society has associated with their biological sex. We are all non-binary, except we don’t call it that because it is a normal state. We don’t need to impose pronouns to normalise this.

I can't speak up. I can't afford to lose my job.

[HUCKMUCK]

My organisation 'encourages' stating pronouns in email signatures. Many people do. The two transgender people I know in our organisation do not. Neither do they wear a pronouns badge which many people do.

[SerenityNowwwww]

Could you demand ‘she/his’? It’s like that game where you can’t say yes or no to an answer.

[RatinaMaze]

There are lots of really good points made here and I'm looking forward to doing to wide-eyed questioning over the next week or so.

To be honest, I was more wound up yesterday by the notion of "normalising" non-binary when, to my mind, it has always been a normal state, hijacked by those who want to be more unique than others. I hadn't really gotten my head around the impact and consequences of the bigger issue.

[Loveinatimeofcovid]

I would play the gender-free care and say that the notion of gender upsets you and you will only accept sexed language.

[SerenityNowwwww]

Little missy/Sweetcheeks?

[christinarossetti19]

wide-eyed questioning

Such fun to be had.

[MrsFogi]

Wow how to peak trans lot of people in one move!

[DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong]

There are a lot of HR types who want to be super progressive and as woke as possible.

They need reminding that the purpose of their job is to ensure that employees are being treated fairly and in accordance with the law, including in relation to all 9 of the protected characteristics.

This means using language as it appears in the law itself, not just making up new shit that sounds good. That way lawsuits lie.

Being wide eyed and asking lots of questions is a sensible strategy for making your point and also avoiding conflict. It’s lucky I’m not working at present because I’m pretty sure I would face disciplinary for asking HR where they are hiding all the glue they’ve been sniffing.

[randolph78]

Whilst it's more than a bit odd to me you said in your second post that 'anyone can opt out'. I imagine most people will and you don't say you have to be trans to opt out. In your first post you say only trans men can be he and only trans women can be she. Which is actually the case? (i.e. what you say in your first post or what you say in your second post about who can use male/ female pronouns).

[randolph78]

To be honest, I was more wound up yesterday by the notion of "normalising" non-binary when, to my mind, it has always been a normal state, hijacked by those who want to be more unique than others.

Soooooo agree with this. When I read the 'definition' of non-binary I think it describes a normal man or a normal woman. I've taken to ticking both the 'female' and 'non-binary' boxes on equal ops questionnaires given this slightly bonkers situation.

[SarahTancredi]

Oh dear, the slippery slope just got a whole lot more slippery. I do wonder how a company can get away with this if the majority disagree with it, which I am sure they do

It's weird how its all kinda come full circle.

First they were all so worried about being outed and misgendered while we all tried to explain gender was nonsense and harmful and it was just personality. Now they want to be outted and have now created non binary and hundreds of other genders because man and woman want enough but somehow now its their idea that there are millions of genderspersonalities and its ok to other them with different pronouns to everyone else its all good. I'm.so confused

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Tell them your gender is fluid and your pronouns may change from one day to the next. By not allowing you to use your preferred pronouns they are committing literal violence toward GenderFluid people such as yourself.

This. And then put, she/her/they/them/him/her as the pronouns.

[talesofginza]

What is your company's record on the gender pay gap, and balance of men and women in senior positions? If it's like most organizations, I assume there is a gap in both (in favour of men). In that case, I would perhaps draw attention to that and say something like "I am proud to be a woman in our company (or industry), and given there is still a way to go in achieving parity of pay and representation at senior levels between the sexes, I do not consider it constructive to change our communication in a way which reduces visibility for women."

I am also happy to use a person's preferred pronouns if they ask me to, but I think consent should be sought before an organisation imposes something like this on everyone. The onus shouldn't be on the majority to break with conventions of every day speech, or to accept new labels which they haven't consented to.

You might consider writing to a journalist who follows these kinds of things. It wouldn't look out of place in the satire pages of the Private Eye....

[RatinaMaze]

@randolph78

Whilst it's more than a bit odd to me you said in your second post that 'anyone can opt out'. I imagine most people will and you don't say you have to be trans to opt out. In your first post you say only trans men can be he and only trans women can be she. Which is actually the case? (i.e. what you say in your first post or what you say in your second post about who can use male/ female pronouns).

They are saying that anyone can opt out but the way this has been put forward absolutely centres trans people and my interpretation (although I realise I may be over sensitive) is that any of us mere bio-females (and males), may find ourselves on the receiving end of some backlash because we (a) won't have a good enough reason to opt out and (b) by doing so, we will be withdrawing support for NB colleagues. It feels to me like a can't win situation.

[Rainbowshine]

I work in HR and I’m thinking WTAF! Someone’s written this that has no experience of having to use and apply a policy for real. Has your organisation got a whistleblowing helpline? You could raise concerns anonymously if you feel the wide eyed questions would get you into a tricky situation.

[ReplacementPlasticUterus]

How the fuck are you supposed to know who has opted out? Are you all going to have to wear badges or something?

What a load of wank - shouldn't HR be doing something, y'know, useful?

[TheTamingOfTheresa]

I was going to say chat to your union but they’re probably in favour of this ridiculous shite

[ShinyFootball]

It's a nightmare tbh

If you work for a big company and with people you have never met, there'll need to be a look up guide for pronouns which will add ages to meetings while people stop to check how to refer to people who aren't there

[Rainbowshine]

A thread on a similar topic

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3963730-the-times-bbc-advises-all-staff-to-use-trans-friendly-pronouns

[RatinaMaze]

@ShinyFootball

It's a nightmare tbh

If you work for a big company and with people you have never met, there'll need to be a look up guide for pronouns which will add ages to meetings while people stop to check how to refer to people who aren't there

My understanding is that this is part of the strategy. If 95% of colleagues are "they" then it will be easier to remember the minority who prefer he/she.

[DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong]

Surely if the majority are she/he it will be easier to remember the handful that are something else?

They’ve got it arse-first, as my Nan would say.

[Mycatismadeofstringcheese]

I’d also want to know the penalties for forgetting.

Nothing?
Email to manager?
A chat with HR?
Verbal warning?
Disciplinary
3 strikes and you’re out?
Gross misconduct?

What is the burden of proof? What if someone is reported but they deny it and there were no witnesses? What if you suspect malicious reporting?

Are those penalties consistent across all levels e.g. if the CEO slips up what happens? Will the CEO be treated more leniently or more harshly than an entry level worker?

[StealthPolarBear]

But trans women are women in every sense. Why on earth would they opt out?

[SarahTancredi]

What is the burden of proof? What if someone is reported but they deny it and there were no witnesses? What if you suspect malicious reporting?

I wonder what the repercussions would be if you complained that work was being abusive towards you. Gaslighting is abuse. If companies are making you do this stuff they are abusing you. There are laws against that.

[BaronessSlighterThanThou]

OP you said:

Our Head of Diversity and Inclusion is NB as are at least two other colleagues of which I am aware.

Presumably an announcement was made (otherwise how could you know) but did these people say what NB actually is and did it make sense to you and your colleagues? In fact did any of your co-workers realise they themselves were NB for the first time?

We're all a bit NB anyway I think.