Pronoun rules at work

[RatinaMaze]

My workplace have just announced that “they/their” pronouns will be used for all staff members by default now. Apparently this neutral pronoun removes any unintentional offence and normalises non-binary colleagues. There is a caveat though; staff members who have transitioned may feel upset by not being able to use the pronoun aligned to their gender so, in these cases, the individuals can use he/him or she/her as appropriate.

Let me repeat this. Biological men and women are no longer allowed to use he/she pronouns in the workplace but transpeople are.

You know what would normalise non-binary? Encouraging bio-males to use he/him and bio females to use she/her but doing so while wearing what they want and pursuing whatever hobbies they want. Susan in Accounts might have shaved her head, wears no make-up and enjoys taking cars apart at the weekend while Mike in Marketing might wear eyeliner and/or a dress and spend his evening decorating cupcakes. That is called having a personality and it is already normal. I don’t know anyone who lives every minute of their lives in a way that adheres to the stereotype of the gender norm that society has associated with their biological sex. We are all non-binary, except we don’t call it that because it is a normal state. We don’t need to impose pronouns to normalise this.

I can't speak up. I can't afford to lose my job.

[ShinyFootball]

Interestingly they/ them is common rather than assuming male default.

e.g. if you ask an accountant they are likely to say X, as opposed to he is likely to say X.

A couple of years ago I was at a presentation where this didn't happen and to have all roles assumed as he was really jarring, it made me realise how embedded that is.

And of course that was a feminist thing to stop e.g. if you ask the manager he will tell you X but if you talk to the receptionist she will tell you y.

Sorry terrible examples!

I'd be ok with no titles and they/ them across the board probably, but changes to language like that take YEARS. The idea you can opt out puts a massive burden on people to remember a lot of stuff about other people. I'm bad enough with names and faces! Big companies still need an intranet look up system for this.

The other problem is that apparently when we see other adults we notice

First sex
Then skin colour
Then things like age, height,
And onto clothes hair etc

As animals, sex is a fundamental automatic classification and I'm sure the oldest one there is. All animals know male/ female don't they. Because reproduction etc.

So pulling that away and saying you can't guess and you don't know and you might have to go against the most basic categorisation there is will be really hard.

It would be easier to desex it entirely. But, as the company in the op has catered for, that's not what some trans people want.

[PrincessForADay]

Another person who would have thought this was a joke years ago. I don't want to be "they".

[TheSingingKettle49]

So what they’re saying is that they’re singling out and treating their ‘gender reassigned’ colleagues differently to their ‘non-gender reassigned’ colleagues, correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t that discrimination?

Also they’re discriminating against women by not calling them she/her but are calling some people who’s legal sex is male she/her, isn’t that discrimination?

[StealthPolarBear]

"The thing is, a few years ago I wouldn't have even believe this story, I would have dismissed it as Daily Mail 'winterval' style bullshit."
Yep. The crazy just keeps on coming.

[ThinEndoftheWedge]

So - just to check - to ensure inclusivity, everyone is compelled to be called they/them.

The only employees allowed to be called she/her are males?

Rotten to the core.

[Wondersense]

And yes, I can see and sympathise why you feel like this would make you stand out as a target or person of interest to HR. Like I said, play them at their own silly game.

[Wondersense]

What a hamfisted approach.

If you want to push back, you can do so by saying or speaking to HR that you don't feel comfortable with this. You can say that you are still figuring out your gender identity, and would prefer for people to just use the pronouns normally associated with your biological sex. I mean, what on earth will they say to that??

[SerenityNowwwww]

But what are they? HR, business development, legal? What are they for?

[DeRigueurMortis]

I think part of the issue with companies in this context (that I've experienced) is that they appoint a diversity champion for brownie points but fail to consider where that leads.

Invariably the person who volunteers has a specific overzealous agenda and it's that rather than overall diversity that get the focus.

For example, silly initiatives like this, rather than important work like supporting the recruitment of non NT persons who often perform badly via traditional interviews or increasing the number of women coming back to work after pregnancy with supportive policies or increasing the presence of BAME people in the organisation generally but also in senior roles, better access and support for people with disabilities etc.

The problem is once that person is appointed you have to tread carefully. It isn't a good look to keep rejecting "suggestions" so invariably some daft initiatives bleed through unless they get robustly challenged.

As I said my own experience of having a diversity champion is that's it's counterproductive and narrowly focused and why imho it should simply be an aspect of an overall HR function and set of policies.

Fundamentally being NB isn't a protected characteristic and my biggest concern is that I'll bet your company has a lot bigger issues to address re: diversity in the context of employment/wages/seniority representation regarding women/BAME/disabilities and I'd be tempted to ask for stats on how they are performing in these regards before throwing a shit load of effort in policing language/documents in a way I can't see being enforceable.

[SerenityNowwwww]

Diversity is a job? A whole, salaried job???

[talesofginza]

I'm sadly not surprised companies are jumping on the bandwagon. They're all feeling the pressure to show they care about CSR, and this is the kind of issue/initiative which costs them very little (because it instead dumps the entire mental cost on its staff) and earns them the praise of the loudmouths on social media...

Can it be argued that this sort of thing unnecessarily politicises the workplace? These kinds of initiatives are brought in as if they are beyond questioning or debate, but they are very much linked to current political debates (e.g. GRA)...

[PopperUppleton]

It's not very diverse, is it? The focus seems to be on a tiny group of people and excluding everyone else. Again.

[maddiemookins16mum]

Your Head of Diversity clearly has no other work to do.

[ThatsHowWeRowl]

This is crazy - so a male can use she/her but a female can't?!

Can you just say that you don't want to be misgendered and your pronouns are she/her? I know you are worried about your job which is understandable but if you approach in a totally non-confrontational way and just back them into a corner it might work?

The thing is, a few years ago I wouldn't have even believe this story, I would have dismissed it as Daily Mail 'winterval' style bullshit.

But honestly, on this issue, nothing surprises me any more.

[SerenityNowwwww]

So if you just say ‘I don’t care’, then what?

[Antibles]

It's a malignant narcissist's wet dream, getting everyone to kowtow to this bullshit, isn't it?

[SerenityNowwwww]

[quote RatinaMaze]@BaronessSlighterThanThou Yes, all three made grand announcements. I think most of us were already aware of what non-binary means so there wasn't much need for explanations. There was some eye-rolling but also a lot of folk being literally moved to tears because they were being so stunning and brave etc.... [/quote]
Are you sure they were tears of ‘emotion’ - it was it more tears or mirth? Who actually gives a flying fig? I’m there to work and have little interest in the fascinating lives and lifestyles of some numpties I barely know.

[Bananabixfloof]

@andyoldlabour

Oh dear, the slippery slope just got a whole lot more slippery. I do wonder how a company can get away with this if the majority disagree with it, which I am sure they do.

I'm quite astounded that so many companies and corporations and businesses are falling over themselves to be woke. Has not one accountant said, well great you do this pronouns thing but ya know only a few people will buy our shit because of it. Lots more buy our shit regardless. And I've read the comments online and did you ever see TBS rationed and cancelled? Does this company really want to walk that fine line?

For OP
Take a leaf out of my book. My pronouns are I, me and mine.

Try a sentence or two with those pronouns and it soon gets confusing. Plus after, you need to trawl all emails for misgendering and report each and every one.

[Deadringer]

Can you identify as a woman, or a trans woman, and be called she?

[Thinkingabout1t]

We are all non-binary, except we don’t call it that because it is a normal state. We don’t need to impose pronouns to normalise this.

Cling to your sanity, OP. You know it, we know it, almost all the world knows it. Your employers probably know it but they don't have the guts to stand up for it.

Safest thing, when you need to keep your job, is to go along with it outwardly and donate anonymously to feminist and free-speech crowdfunders.

[Thelnebriati]

NB is not a protected characteristic, so they can't enforce this.

[2bazookas]

I claim the same rights as trans persons who prefer to be pronouned she/her.
.

[DeRigueurMortis]

Opps - Bunce not Bounce (though the latter could have been a Freudian slip rather than a typo).

[DeRigueurMortis]

Other questions:

• what happens to pre-policy documents? Will they all have to be updated? Has anyone considered the workload in doing so?

• what about staff who regularly change their pronouns (eg Philip/pippa bounce)? Are you expected to remember the day of the week and the pronoun? What happens if you write an email referring to "her" on Tuesday be "he" reads it on Wednesday?

• does this apply to interaction with customers/clients? Will you have to ask for their pronouns and where will these be registered?

• As above do all documents e.g. proposals/presentations for client/customer consumption need to use neutral pronouns - how will this be communicated to them to avoid any misunderstanding when the use of "they" might be ambiguous/unclear in context?

[Lottapianos]

'To be honest, I was more wound up yesterday by the notion of "normalising" non-binary when, to my mind, it has always been a normal state, hijacked by those who want to be more unique than others'

You're spot on