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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Freemasons to accept trans women and trans men

27 replies

Confusedaboutrules · 10/07/2020 12:24

Interesting article about how the Freemasons are going to accept Transwomen who were members before they reassigned and accept trans men who apply after they have reassigned.

The chief executive claims that they have a history of treating people equally and apparently it is laughable to suggest otherwise!

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-45030075

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 10/07/2020 12:26

So they are saying that TW are NOT women?
I wonder if lots of angry young TW will be sending them vile threats?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 10/07/2020 12:31

Women (who acknowledge that you're women), know your place!

HappyPunky · 10/07/2020 13:37

You have to know a Mason to get in so it's unlikely transmen will be that welcome.

There are female lodges so it makes sense that they would keep transwomen after transition. It will be interesting to see what happens if transwomen decide they want to join the female lodges

Aesopfable · 10/07/2020 17:29

it makes sense that they would keep transwomen after transition

Of course it does, they were men before they transitioned and after they transition they remain men.

HappyPunky · 10/07/2020 17:33

@Aesopfable

it makes sense that they would keep transwomen after transition

Of course it does, they were men before they transitioned and after they transition they remain men.

Yes but they are saying they are accepting both sexes in the male lodge. I don't believe that they are, I think they will exclude transmen and include transwomen in the male to keep them out of the female because they know what sex everyone is.
KingofDinobots · 10/07/2020 17:52

So....they’re saying that transwomen are not in fact women so can stay in the men’s lodges? But transmen are in fact men so can join the men’s lodges? Like everything else in this debate, this is so nonsensical it makes my brain hurt.

excitedemmi · 11/07/2020 14:13

This is infuriating! Expelling masons for transitioning is unlawful discrimination, but excluding women isn't? Can't they see how silly this is? So now men, transmen, and transwomen can all join, but not women....

Michelleoftheresistance · 11/07/2020 14:26

K, then I'll chuck the usual spanner in the works here.

I identify as a TM today. (There is no way to prove sincerity and a transition is a transition at any time, even if ten minutes ago.) I will be turning up to the meetings with long hair, lipstick, skirts and high heels - how dare anyone police my masculinity after all, or to try to tell me how to express my manhood? And I may only identify as a TM occasionally but they can't police that either.

Will be interesting to watch them splutter and realise the reality. You just went mixed sex, guys. Anyone can exploit this in any direction at all, and will.

Michelleoftheresistance · 11/07/2020 14:27

Oooh and very expensive lawsuits await if anyone even looks at me sideways.

Xanthangum · 11/07/2020 14:40

Someone should invent thirdspace lodges. For transmasons.

Binterested · 11/07/2020 14:43

Maybe Meg John Whatnot - nonbinary friend of nonbinary but Masonic (and therefore really quite binary) Edward Lord - would like to test this. After all they are very keen on breaking down boundaries and identifying as Meg on a Monday and John on a Sunday and Meg John Tuesday to Saturday. So come on Meg John. You know you really want to know what actually goes on underneath those aprons Grin

damnthatanxiety · 11/07/2020 14:43

so the ONLY group that can not be members are biological women...

TellingBone · 11/07/2020 14:43

@Xanthangum

Someone should invent thirdspace lodges. For transmasons.
They could call them a Masonic bodge
Xanthangum · 11/07/2020 14:48

Grin @TellingBone

AdaColeman · 11/07/2020 14:58

Masonic bodge! Grin Grin

JellyfishandShells · 11/07/2020 15:11

I told my husband this, who had problems with unfair practices involving preferential treatment of Masons within a former job , and who then, in another job, had to deal with some late transitioners making demands for unreasonable accommodations.

His eyebrows are unlikely to come back down from outer space any time soon.

PotholeParadise · 11/07/2020 15:23

I think the personal reference criterion will effectively gatekeep; women, transmen and born female people who identify as gender-fluid will all be neatly blocked out by that.

There are many people who are willing to go to all kinds of effort with pronouns at work, and other people who will go along with it at work because they feel obliged to do so. It doesn't automatically follow that they're willing to spend their free time with you, or that they want to transgress the social norms of their friendship group by bringing you along to a meet-up. For that kind of thing, you need to build very strong inter-personal relationships with people. At this point, we segue into my advice for incels, which runs along the lines of 'develop a sense of humour and a personality that extends beyond seeing other people as there to serve your needs'

Anyway, I could make a big noise about identifying as a man, but I'd have to commit to surgery and so on before any bloke would risk sacrificing his social credibility with his lodge to get me admitted. Calling myself David two days a week would absolutely not be enough.

However, this doesn't mean that they fwant to spend their free time with you

GiantKitten · 11/07/2020 15:23

You can’t just join the Freemasons though - you have to be nominated & seconded & whatnot. So they’re never going to have randoms joining.

Also there are 2 (🤷🏼‍♀️) women’s divisions which female people can join.

It’s all bollocks anyway.

PotholeParadise · 11/07/2020 15:24

Ignore that last line. That's not supposed to be there.

PennyNotSoWise · 11/07/2020 15:26

No no no Freemasons, TWAW. Daniel Radcliffe already settled this for us. It's transphobic to acknowledge TW are in fact men, is it not? An offence punishable by rape threats, death threats and cancellation.

Do the Freemasons not know that this is LiTeRaL vIoLeNcE? Do they not know that this is literally killing trans people? Are they aware they're denying trans existence? Do they realise this makes them bigots? Won't somebody please think of the clownfish!

SciFiScream · 11/07/2020 15:26

This article is almost 2 years old? Why share it now. This conversation has been had. I'm worried about screenshots.

GiantKitten · 11/07/2020 15:26

The link in the OP is from Aug 2018 so not new news.
Probably not unconnected to the Edward Lord City of London shenanigans - “public opinion survey”, gender-neutral facilities, Hampstead Ladies’ Pond - wasn’t all that around then?

PotholeParadise · 11/07/2020 15:41

Two years ago? Well, I haven't seen any lawsuits, so I assume everything is working as intended. Trans women keep the places they already had achieved and otherwise all is as normal.

I wonder how transphobic it actually is. Does transitioning hinder status progression as a mason?

Confusedaboutrules · 12/07/2020 14:28

Sorry I didn't realize the article was 2 years old 😳 it came up on my news feed on my phone so I assumed it was current!

Haven't heard anything since so guessing nothing big has come of it.

Of course people are invited to join, I forgot that, so it's a way of being able to control it anyway. The only masons I know wouldn't invite me to join anyway if I claimed to be a trans man so I guess I'll never find out all the secrets (I'm gutted can you tell 😉)

OP posts:
CatandtheFiddle · 12/07/2020 17:51

The chief executive claims that they have a history of treating people equally and apparently it is laughable to suggest otherwise!

So basically, they're still not accepting women. Unless they are transmen, so adopting the stereotypes of gender roles and masculinity.

But they accept transwomen, because the Freemasons clearly believe that transwomen are not women.

So - the only people that the Freemasons reject are women who are just women.

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