The Times - BBC advises all staff to use trans‑friendly pronouns

[McDuffy]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8ff3493a-c218-11ea-91bd-3bac3c644e50?shareToken=f5b8f402b33181f8e10ee0a84b47704b

Not a fan of compelled speech. I have lost so much respect for the BBC the past two years.

Related: if one cancels one's TV license, can one still watch live TV, just not BBC?

Can you put your preferred noun as well? Ie woman as opposed to CIS woman, non male or menstruator?
But in a practical note, how are people supposed to remember the preferred pronoun for 20,000 employees when it’s tacked onto the end of an email?

BBC staff are urged to “help to create a culture where everyone feels comfortable introducing themselves with pronouns”.

We're British! We aren't comfortable introducing ourselves to anyone, let alone adding our favourite third-personages in case someone needs to refers to us after we have left.

But seriously, this is on the front page! Its a non-story, no-one is being mandated to change their behaviour. And as loony as it is, I have no problem with respecting the pronoun people. Bigger things out there, The Times...

BBC you are a fucking major corporation, not a sixth form common room.

FFS.

Once again, though, the reader comments range from bafflement to indignation about compelled speech. This is not what people want.

Helen Lewis and David Aaronovitch have both written critiques on diversity training and unconscious bias training in the last week or two. Putting an article on the BBC intranet that talks about gender identity and pronoun use seems like the very definition of looking like you're doing something positive when there's little evidence it will have any positive effect for trans people.

I'd actually argue it's more likely to rub some people up the wrong way. In view of all the light that's shining on this issue at the moment, an article recommending people now alter their language to suit 2%... Especially when the BBC has form for paying its male staff more because they have a "twinkle in their eyes" (or whatever they said about Jeremy Vine). Why would you want to highlight your femaleness (or womanly gender identity 🤨) in that kind of institution?

All female BBC employees should list their pronouns as under/paid

“More than 400 BBC employees, 2 per cent of the total, identify as transgender, according to internal surveys.“

More than 400? That explains a lot!

Interesting that Richard Branson is so caring about people’s feelings apart from when it comes to paying them fairly and keeping them in employment. I mean who needs a job when you’ve got the right pronoun?

Whenever I see men using "he/his" pronouns I think "great, thanks for reminding me that you're probably paid better, won't be punished for taking parental leave, etc". It's nice for men to have a chance to brag about their privilege, isn't it. Conversely I have been sexually harassed on many occasions at work. Why would I advertise my femaleness and give some sleaze a "conversation opener" about it?

Time for this again

Pronouns are Rohypnol

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

It's all about validation. Feeling like a woman either has to mean lady brain or else everyone else acting like you're a woman. But the purpose of pronouns is so other people can describe you between themselves. The pronouns people use about you is really non of your business.

Isn't it slightly off? No one would insist that people tell each other their sexuality or religion, yet they are expected to announce pronouns indicating their gender identity ?

200,000 to 500,000 people in the U.K. identify as trans. Presuming that includes children, i imagine it fluctuates due to the issue of female rapid onset dysphoria. And we are being told what to call these people. Thanks for the rohypnol link Kit.

a small, proactive step that we can all take to help create a more inclusive workplace

A large provocative step we will force everyone to take to help create an exclusive workplace.

A BBC compelled speech workplace.

Iran, China, Russia take note.

Here's the accompanying leader comment piece

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-times-view-on-a-new-bbc-policy-pronoun-problems-k75n5stsb?shareToken=2c450c83ef8e1fb0086a5c29710406e5

It probably their key strategy to balance the sex (notgender) pay gap.

This sentence is the most shocking of all:

As a women only service, SARSVL does not work with transgender men or boys

From Butterer's link to the Leeds centre. Here is an example of true transphobia

Sorry, wrong thread

Yet again, it comes to mind how trans people are the most marginalised, most oppressed, and least powerful of all of the identity groups in the UK.

This article is a perfect example why I don't pay the TV Licence but do pay a Times subscription in terms of supporting the media.

McDuffy: you have to get a TV Licence if you:

• watch any live TV, BBC or other,
• watch any recorded TV, BBC or other,
• watch or stream programmes live on an online TV service, or
• download or watch any BBC programmes on iPlayer.

This relates to any device. You don't avoid having to get a TV Licence simply by avoiding BBC content. "You don't need a TV Licence if you only ever watch on demand or catch up programmes on services other than BBC iPlayer - and never watch live TV programmes on any channel or TV service, including on iPlayer."

My workplace has Stonewall diversity training in place. On or two of my most irritating colleagues has pronouns on their email.

That's a big fat NO from me, chaps.

@TheSingingKettle49

“More than 400 BBC employees, 2 per cent of the total, identify as transgender, according to internal surveys.“

More than 400? That explains a lot!

I assume that was an internal survey. Hmmmm. But doesn’t the stonewall umbrella cover a hell of a lot of people?

No one has the right to tell people how someone talks about them/refers to them when they aren't even there.

I shorten my name to a unisex version ( like Alex for example) no one has ever called or emailed me to ask of im male or female. If someone make a mistake then I laugh about it and generally don't give a shit . It happens.

Never would I dream about throwing a tantrum citing literal violence and expect everyone to start sticking pronouns in their email.

In fact that would feel hostile to me as I know no one cares if they "Misgender" me, if they did they would have asked me years ago. This is about appeasing adult babies who think the world revolves around them.

Isn't there masses of evidence on bias around sex in the workplace? Why would you want to pressure women to have pronouns that remind every person they ever contact of their sex or gender?

If that really matters to someone, all they need to do is add a Ms or Mr to their name, and job done.

Isn't there masses of evidence on bias around sex in the workplace? Why would you want to pressure women to have pronouns that remind every person they ever contact of their sex or gender?

Well precisely

I just have one other question too.

If the cps can tell girls that accost a man or report a man in the women's loo could theoretically be outing them as transgender and thats a hate incident/crime, then why would suggesting staff put their promouns in emails not also be considered outing someone too?

Seems that they can pick and chose a bit and work things to their benefit every time ....