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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mrs America - US women's liberation history or a period drama that denies a movement and elevates individuals

19 replies

stumbledin · 08/07/2020 14:04

Just posting this not to say it should be discussed here rather that telly addicts, but in case some aren't aware this starts tonight on BBC2.

I haven't seen any reviews of this by US 70's feminists so have no idea if it is a Hollywood soap or an interesting historical and political drama about women's rights.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08ggcmd

OP posts:
Thelnebriati · 08/07/2020 14:45

There's a quick overview here;

“Mrs. America” opens in 1971, a time when the ERA enjoyed support from politicians on both sides of the aisle. Both the House and the Senate adopted the measure by overwhelming margins before sending it to the states for ratification. It was not always seen as a liberal cause.

www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-04-24/mrs-america-phyllis-schlafly-equal-rights-amendment

katy1213 · 08/07/2020 14:51

Gloria Steinem has said it isn't very good and mis-represents the movement. But to make a very watchable drama out of the ERA has to be an achievement! Cate Blanchett is brilliant and I thought it was a fascinating slice of feminist history, whilst accepting that it focuses on personalities.

OliveKitteridgeAgain · 08/07/2020 14:57

Sarah Paulson is in it. She's been utterly horrific to JKR. I'll need to rise above while watching it.

RufustheRowlingReindeer · 08/07/2020 14:59

@OliveKitteridgeAgain

Sarah Paulson is in it. She's been utterly horrific to JKR. I'll need to rise above while watching it.
Has she?

Ive set it to record

OliveKitteridgeAgain · 08/07/2020 15:04

Rufus

twitter.com/MsSarahPaulson/status/1269425036365926400

RufustheRowlingReindeer · 08/07/2020 15:14

Not sure whether I should thank you for the link or not olive

Thank you 🥺

That’s horrendous

Why like that one in particular! Lots of people (alright some) have very calmly and reasonably (it might have been one person) explained why they have an issue with JKR...why not like some of those

OhHolyJesus · 08/07/2020 15:19

Thanks for this OP, will watch. Will also record so I can fwd Paulson.

OliveKitteridgeAgain · 08/07/2020 15:23

I know, Rufus . Made my heart break a little. I've really liked Sarah P since I saw her in The Trial of OJ Simpson. Her liking that particular - utterly horrible - post, was an act of pure malice.

OliveKitteridgeAgain · 08/07/2020 15:32

BTW, Ben O'Keefe, whom she retweeted, is a political strategist who works for Democrat Elizabeth Warren - she who claims to have Native American heritage, on no evidence other than her cheekbones, and who has taken educational opportunities and credits for being of that heritage.

The cognitive dissonance of these people is staggering.

InionEile · 09/07/2020 04:26

It’s a good series and shows the strategies used by Republicans to hijack the move towards progressive change in the US after the 1960s and turn things in a reactionary direction. Ultimately because women were divided on political lines, men remained in control while women continued to fight for whatever scraps they were thrown by the main parties.

It’s still like that today in the US as women still don’t have paid maternity leave, guaranteed sick leave, and now, with the new Supreme Court ruling, not even the right to birth control.

mrsmuddlepies · 09/07/2020 08:39

It would appear that some of the reasons many women of that time were opposed to the ERA (Equal Rights Act) are still a bone of contention today on the MN Feminist Board.

From Wikipedia

Schlafly became an outspoken opponent of the Equal Rights Amendmentnt_ (ERA) during the 1970s as the organizer of the "STOP ERA" campaign. STOP was an acronym for "Stop Taking Our Privileges". She argued that the ERA would take away gender-specific privileges currently enjoyed by women, including "dependent wife" benefits under Social Securityy, separate restrooms for males and females, and exemption from Selective Servicee* (the military draftt).[27][28] She was opposed by groups such as the National Organization for Womenn (NOW) and the ERAmerica coalition. The Homemakers' Equal Rights Association was formed to counter Schlafly's campaign.[29]

stumbledin · 09/07/2020 23:13

Someone's started a third thread on this (ie this one and the one on telly addicts) at www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3963349-mrs-america

OP posts:
TehBewilderness · 10/07/2020 00:45

@OliveKitteridgeAgain

BTW, Ben O'Keefe, whom she retweeted, is a political strategist who works for Democrat Elizabeth Warren - she who claims to have Native American heritage, on no evidence other than her cheekbones, and who has taken educational opportunities and credits for being of that heritage.

The cognitive dissonance of these people is staggering.

That is incorrect. Warren, like many of us have family stories of Native American ancestry. She repeated her family stories and was called Pocahontas by Donald Trump for it. She did not take"educational opportunities and credits for being of that heritage." She did take the DNA test, though.

Are you holding Warren responsible for what O'Keefe said on twitter?
1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.

OliveKitteridgeAgain · 10/07/2020 02:57

Stories do not equate to heritage. Unless you would like to correct the Cherokee Nation

medium.com/@ewarrenisnotcherokee/open-letter-to-elizabeth-warren-from-cherokee-citizens-ab053578bd95

Or indeed, Warren herself, who apologised for her claims of Native American heritage, both by letter and during a presidential forum on Native American issues in Iowa last August.

Her DNA ancestry showed her ancestry as "vastly European" with some evidence of ancestry from the "Americas" (which could be South America as well as North) 6-10 generations removed - i.e., 180- 300 years ago. As I understand it, her results are actually less than the average white American might expect.

Warren's claim allowed Harvard to hold out that it had ticked a diversity box, when it clearly had not. From the article copied below:

According to a much-cited investigation by the Boston Globe, Warren consistently checked “white” on personnel forms throughout her career, including in 1981, 1985, and 1998 while employed at the University of Texas. But in the 1986-1987 edition of the Association of American Law School’s directory and eight subsequent editions, Warren listed herself as a minority. She began identifying as Native American on personnel forms three years into her post at the University of Pennsylvania. And while multiple professors have attested to the fact that Warren was considered white during the hiring process at Harvard University, in 1995 she self-identified as Native American, and the school’s statistics were updated to reflect as much. Harvard recorded Warren as Native American from 1995 to 2004.

Warren now claims that while her self-identification was insufficiently nuanced, she wasn’t being dishonest about her heritage, citing her genetic test and family history as proof. But by focusing on the hereditary aspects of identity, rather than the cultural or experiential ones, Warren undermines the stated objectives of diversity programs.

The purpose of affirmative action is not to increase the numbers of people who merely self-identify as diverse. (If it were, Rachel Dolezal would be a qualified diversity applicant.) Nor is the point to celebrate minute blood quantum among faculty who otherwise present as white and who don’t engage with nonwhite cultural traditions in any meaningful way. Rather, the major goals of diversity in higher education are twofold: Affirmative action is an effort to level the playing field between white men and historically marginalized groups, such as people of color and women.... Racial diversity efforts are also intended to diversify intellectual perspectives with the understanding that race can be a proxy for experiences, and scholarship is enriched by a wide range of perspectives.

An additional goal of faculty diversity is to establish a support system for students who encounter identity-specific obstacles with which a similarly identifying faculty member may be better qualified to assist.

theintercept.com/2018/10/16/elizabeth-warren-dna-video-native-american-harvard/?comments=1

So yes, she took a "diversity role" at Harvard that was intended for someone with a diversity background.

With regard to the Rachel Dolezal point above, this is where I would reference the hypocrisy of Ben O'Keefe, whom I understand is African American. Had Warren made a similarly tenuous claim to being African American, I think he may have been unhappy.

Bringing this back round to his odious tweet against JKR; clearly he -and IIRC Warren - are supporters of TWAW. Another imposter claim. But no, I did not say at any point in my previous post that Warren is responsible for his tweet, so I don't know why you would say that, other than for a cheap gotcha. I merely pointed out that he is working for someone who has made claims to an identity that have been proven to be tenuous at best and have thoroughly offended the group into which she was making a claim. Yet he can see no parallel to the matter at hand. Hence the cognitive dissonance.

Socrates11 · 10/07/2020 14:25

Helen Lewis discusses Mrs America in this weeks Bluestocking blog & links to this review from April.

www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2020/04/hulu-mrs-america-phyllis-schlafly-long-shadow/610129/

Goosefoot · 10/07/2020 15:04

As far as warren goes, I think in some ways the problem has been a change in culture. Cultural appropriation was not the buzzword that it is now in the 90s.

The emphasis was different - there was a lot of emphasis around identifying as many people in public life who had some links to minority or oppressed groups as possible, with the idea I think that this would "inspire" youth from those groups and provide roll models.

There were some pretty dubious transitions for famous figures from the past and present who suddenly became black or indigenous. And a lot of people became very interested in discovering and celebrating their heritage, even if it wasn't a very close connection, it was seen as a positive attitude.

merrymouse · 10/07/2020 17:07

Given how much importance some Americans still place on being 'Daughters of the American Revolution' (as illustrated in Mrs America) or being 'Mayflower Descendents', I don't understand why Elizabeth Warren shouldn't be proud of having Native American ancestry from 6-10 generations ago.

TehBewilderness · 10/07/2020 18:46

@merrymouse

Given how much importance some Americans still place on being 'Daughters of the American Revolution' (as illustrated in Mrs America) or being 'Mayflower Descendents', I don't understand why Elizabeth Warren shouldn't be proud of having Native American ancestry from 6-10 generations ago.
It is now considered cultural appropriation to talk about Native American ancestry unless you are registered with a tribe or at the very least look the part. We were proud of our Seminole family history on my fathers side and our Coast Salish history on my mothers side based on oral traditions and family journals. Now the children don't learn our history any more except what is in the public records. My great aunt was shamed for her heritage and now her children's children are shamed for being proud of their heritage. A pattern is emerging.
ValancyRedfern · 10/07/2020 19:51

That's a fascinating article Socrates11

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