Tammy Duckworth - Biden running mate

[SerendipityJane]

Any thoughts ?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammy_Duckworth

I really think the OP owes @mstrotwood an apology for bringing up a point that many people would wonder about when Obama's birth places was so in question and when the rules around presidency and nationality have been talking points for the past few years.

You don't really run for VP and your OP seemed to be that you thought she was a good idea not that she was openly trying to vie for the position of VP which is what the poster was responding to.

Saying that you're sensitive to racism doesn't change the fact that the poster wasn't being racist and wasn't an apology

Yes, like much of the world right now it's trying to figure out which is the lesser of two evils.

From looking at the far left movement in the States I'd personally be even more concerned about Biden than Trump at this moment in time (eg writing discrimination out of law in California, defunding the police queer theory etc). I don't envy the decision either way and think either is a terrible outcome in its own way. Trump likely to help kill us all with climate change before too long anyway.

Thanks for a civil discussion on this, nice to see.

Sorry for the exceptional gloom there!

He had American citizenship but I believe it was renounced well before becoming PM because of the tax implications. Probably a few years back when the US somehow managed to get the banks to collude with them in this country.

@TheSandman

Just a slight tangent, but I wonder how many UK citizens know that Boris Johnson was born in New York.

Does that mean the wanker can claim American citizenship?

It means he is American.

14th Amendment.

Yes, he renounced it in 2017 after having to pay out on selling his london home. Poor dear.

Also there would be of course no point in pretending to renounce it as he'd still have all the tax obligations and never be able to use it to run for anything ever.

@NeverMindDontFuckOffSomeMore

He had American citizenship but I believe it was renounced well before becoming PM because of the tax implications. Probably a few years back when the US somehow managed to get the banks to collude with them in this country.

I still don't believe it. He may claim he did. I know he made a huge fuss about it at the time. But this is a man who simply cannot ever be relied on to tell the truth, so he can suffer the liars fate.

And you can't just blame UK banks. Every bank in the world has been tasked with providing details of accounts held by US citizens, or face not being allowed to operate in the US. As far as I know the only places you can hide money from the US are China and Russia. Even Switzerland was forced to let the US in.

What exact benefits would he have from for pretending?

@NeverMindDontFuckOffSomeMore

What exact benefits would he have from for pretending?

Getting a shot at POTUS for a start. How old is he now ? 56 ? There isn't much left of the UK to trash - certainly by 2024 it will be job done. Then, aged 60 he can fuck off and make America world beating (again) too. After all, they seem to have a fetish for inarticulate floppy odd-haired right wing misogynistic racist liars who can't keep their Johnsons in their pants.

Sorry but no.

If he had intentions of running for potus one day he would not have made the song and dance about renouncing his citizenship as that would have made him fully unelectable in America. Americans don't like anti-Americanism in their presidents.

It also does the business of creating the conspiracy theory for him about him being ineligible. He has to prove he only pretended to renounce it. Think about that for a second.

He couldn't run as a democrat and the republicans are never in a million years going to consider a British (because citizenship aside he is clearly British) candidate.

If he has no interest in running for office then keeping his citizenship means he gets the privilege of being double taxed.

There is literally no reason for him to pretend. It's tin foil hat. It doesn't make any sense.

Interestingly considering you just gave a bollicking to another poster for thinking they knew more than a candidate you seem to think BJ wouldn't understand all of this perfectly well.

I'm not even sure if he would have been able to pass his citizenship on to his children as I believe (and don't quote me here) that you have to have been living in the country for several years either side of the age of 16 if you are male.

So there is literally no benefit to it.

After all, they seem to have a fetish for inarticulate floppy odd-haired right wing misogynistic racist liars who can't keep their Johnsons in their pants.

And no, they don't the majority didn't vote for him.

Where as here a significant majority of voters voted conservative. Maybe Trump will buy British citizenship and give himself a go at PM though?

If he had intentions of running for potus one day he would not have made the song and dance about renouncing his citizenship as that would have made him fully unelectable in America. Americans don't like anti-Americanism in their presidents.

That might fly as an argument if you could persuade me that Boris supposed anti-Americanism would be more of a disadvantage to appealing to Republican voters than a black candidates skin colour would be. But I'm not.

And given how the US media is quite capable of burying the news it doesn't like, I can't see it would ever get to be a talking point. In fact, it would be spun as a bonus ...

Reporter: Excuse me sir, are you aware that Presidential candidate Johnson has criticised the US in the past ?

Interviewee: Why darn, no, but who hasn't had a beef with Uncle Sam every now an' then ? That's what makes America great !

Anyway, for now, it's moot. We are stuck with Boris. The US is stuck with Trump. Possibly permanently if his threat to never leave the Whitehouse comes true.

Obama ... was born in the US but he would have been an American citizen through his mother regardless of where he was born.

Obama's "problem" (and it's a manufactured problem because we know he is and always was a US citizen: he does have a Hawaii BC and has had a US passport since he was a child) goes back to an old US law which was changed in 1986 (Obama was born in 1961, Duckworth in 1968):

"For persons born (outside the USA) between December 24, 1952 and November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:
The person's parents were married at the time of birth
One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person was born
The citizen parent lived at least ten years in the United States before the child's birth;
A minimum of 5 of these 10 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday."

(There's also some fine print for cases where the US citizen parent is living abroad due to service to the US government.)

For Obama, only one of his parents, his mother, was a US citizen when he was born AND as his mother was 18 years old when he was born, she didn't fit the criteria of having lived 5 years in the USA after her 14th birthday (even though she had lived her whole life in the USA). So, HAD Obama been born abroad, he would not have automatically acquired US citizenship at birth. Hence the massive uproar insisting that he WAS born abroad. But that was a very specific set of circumstances.

travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/us-citizenship.html

If Boris had pretended to renounce his citizenship he's still have to pay American taxes. I can't see him going for that.

In any case, he's way to left to run over there as a Republican, maybe even a Democrat.

I know its irrelevant, but that's a very strange law if it means that that Boris Johnson would qualify because his mother happened to be in the US at the time of his birth, but Obama (whose mother's family, I think had been in the US for hundreds of years) wouldn't qualify, mainly because of his mother's age.

That might fly as an argument if you could persuade me that Boris supposed anti-Americanism would be more of a disadvantage to appealing to Republican voters than a black candidates skin colour would be. But I'm not.

We're not having an argument or a debate, What you are saying is so incoherent I'm not actually sure if you're trolling.

You called one person a racist then refused to apologise.

Called an entire country idiots, and put forward a completely mad conspiracy theory that never needed to happen

If Boris wanted to run for the presidency then he could have simply not given up his citizenship.

This is the point. There was nothing to be gained and everything to be lost and it never needed to happen.

If there is a rule that says you can't run for PM while having dual citizenship then that would be a good reason to give up citizenship but I don't think there is and even if there was lying wouldn't help you anyway as once you admit you lied under oath to the queen you're done for treason.

WHY would he renounce it? No one wanted him to do it, the only person to benefit was him and his pocket and it happened at a time when surprise loads of other rich Americans were doing it.

Why darn, no, but who hasn't had a beef with Uncle Sam every now an' then ? That's what makes America great !

Bit early for the glue really.

@Maduixa Oh there you go. I knew there was some madness around dates to pass on citizenship. I researched it myself a while ago. I have a feeling now that the same applies now but only if you're male. Maybe it changed to avoid the Obama situation where a mother could theoretically be too young?

Obama's "problem" (and it's a manufactured problem because we know he is and always was a US citizen: he does have a Hawaii BC and has had a US passport since he was a child) goes back to an old US law which was changed in 1986 (Obama was born in 1961, Duckworth in 1968)

Isn't Hawaii a state of the US ? So Obama was born on US soil. Therefore a citizen under the 14th amendment anyway. No need for any jiggery pokery about parental status ?

@merrymouse

I know its irrelevant, but that's a very strange law if it means that that Boris Johnson would qualify because his mother happened to be in the US at the time of his birth, but Obama (whose mother's family, I think had been in the US for hundreds of years) wouldn't qualify, mainly because of his mother's age.

It was a very strange law!! And I say that as someone born in the US (and therefore automatically a US citizen) with not much legal connection to the country at the time of my birth - my father was in the US on a university exchange visa, my mother tagged along and did an MA, as she wasn't eligible to work.

The born in the USA = US citizen part goes back to slavery - you can't interrogate the citizenship of a child's parent when you've denied citizenship to a massive group of your own people.

I think the current law allows a child born "abroad" to claim US citizenship through any US citizen parent.

SerendipityJane: yes, exactly. he was a US citizen because he was born in Hawaii. Therefore people who didn't want him to be president claimed he was NOT born in Hawaii.

I think the current law allows a child born "abroad" to claim US citizenship through any US citizen parent.

Back in the 90s, a friend I was at Uni with tracked down her birth father, who was a serving US soldier in the UK in the 60s. (He'd had a ONS with her DM and she was the result).

I'm not sure of the exact ins and outs, but via the US embassy she was able to get him to confirm paternity. At which point she got US citizenship, SS number and passport. Which allowed her to spend a gap year (before there were such things) working her way around the US.

I know Trump hates the 14th amendment, as it basically confers citizenship on immigrants whether legal or illegal and thus makes for a way to keep whole families in the US. Despite his herculean efforts at trying to kick out parents and abandoning infants.

You sound exactly like the racist shit she debated who tried to insult her

I have been away all day and just seen this. My question was innocent, related purely to where she was born.
Thank you to all of you who pointed this out.

I thought you had to be born on US soil to be eligible as President, but thanks to DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong's link to the quora article upthread, I now know that I was wrong.

Therefore a citizen under the 14th amendment anyway. No need for any jiggery pokery about parental status ?

Hawaii was not a state when Obama was born though.

Oops no, I'm wrong. Obama was born two years after statehood. He really was young when he got elected.

@NeverMindDontFuckOffSomeMore

Therefore a citizen under the 14th amendment anyway. No need for any jiggery pokery about parental status ?

Hawaii was not a state when Obama was born though.

Obama: Born 1961.

Hawaii acceded to the union 21/8/1959.

?

@merrymouse

I know its irrelevant, but that's a very strange law if it means that that Boris Johnson would qualify because his mother happened to be in the US at the time of his birth, but Obama (whose mother's family, I think had been in the US for hundreds of years) wouldn't qualify, mainly because of his mother's age.

I think it makes more sense if you think of it as a country that to some extent justifies itself on the basis of squatters rights.