Forbes: "Biological Sex is a Myth"

[EddyF]

Hmmm. Not sure if I can link the complete article or if it is against the rules. But in short...

Many who oppose transgender rights believe that gender is determined solely by biological sex. But, biological sex isn’t as straightforward as they likely think, and there is no one parameter that makes a person biologically male or female. In fact, many conditions make assigning a biological sex quite difficult.

Despite the complexities, biological sex is often discussed as if it were obvious how to assign male or female sex. In addition to today’s Supreme Court ruling, last Friday, Trump eliminated transgender individuals’ civil rights in health care and Roger Severino, the Director of the Office for Civil Rights at the Department of Health and Human Services said of the bill that “We're going back to the plain meaning of those terms [male and female], which is based on biological sex.” Earlier this month, Harry Potter author, J.K. Rowling, was labeled anti-trans for making a distinction between biological women and transgender women. And, in April, Idaho became the first state to require that athletes competing in girls’ and women’s sports be biologically female. None explained exactly how they would assign biological sex in ambiguous cases.

Rowlings comments were in response to an article which referred to, “the menstrual health and hygiene needs of girls, women and all people who menstruate.” She tweeted , “‘People who menstruate.’ I’m sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud?’ After facing criticism for suggesting that transgender women were not women, Rowling followed up, “If sex isn’t real, the lived reality of women globally is erased.”

www.forbes.com/sites/kimelsesser/2020/06/15/the-myth-of-biological-sex/#62f8193076b9

The biology of sex is real, but it’s extremely complicated

If it were that complicated the human race (and mammals) would have died out millennia ago.

i find a good indicator of sex to be, if this person had come to me as an adolescent saying they had just started bleeding from their genitals, would i rush them to a&e or give them a sanitary towel? turns out when you phrase it like that you can actually tell what sex practically everyone is really, really easily

Yeah - but they have a great reputation.

Have? Or had?

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

Love that, so simple

She appears to just be talking about watching a BBC documentary, and its not clear that she has understood what a DSD is.

Biological sex, it turns out, is a lot like gender identity—not always male or female, but occasionally somewhere in between.

Ugh! Gender is about how you feel and then decide to live... feel like a man feel like a woman, let the people do what they like.

But come on biological sex is male or female. End of. If I was born male then lived as a female, and then got prostate cancer what would the dr do? Treat my body as male of course! There is no getting away from body parts that are male or female and therefore need medical intervention as that biological sex. Gender is irrelevant - that is choice! Sex isn’t!

I don’t get why this is even being debated out there!

@ScrimpshawTheSecond

Yeah - but they have a great reputation.

Have? Or had?

I don't know. I thought their article on trans kids was actually terrible, and obviously full of holes and poor reasoning, but they seemed to be lauded for it.

I can't say I've noticed people giving them much criticism for other things either but I don't regularly read it.

People with DSD have asked repeatedly not to be used as a ‘gotcha’ in trans discussions and yet here we still are

Yes, ignoring clearly stated boundaries is a theme among TRAs. When people with DSD are discussed in relation to trans, no TRA ever seems to bother to find out how people with DSD identify - i.e. their argument is premised on the idea that DSD is genetically / biologically fixed and something that people with DSD can't identify out of. All the people they're discussing with DSD might identify as male or female or non-binary or any of the other however many genders for all they know. So by trying to use DSD they're being transphobic, irrational and also hypocritical since their whole TRA ideology is based on saying your feelings count more than biology.

The existence of people with DSDs is not proof that people can change sex.

The existence of people with DSDs is not proof that people can change sex.

And its certainly not proof that sex has no consequences.

Many who oppose transgender rights believe that gender is determined solely by biological sex

This nonsensical statement constitutes the whole issue. What the hell does 'gender' mean?

I was just reading an article on Forbes by Julian Vigo called Pseudo-scientific Hokum and the experimentation on Childrens Bodies, if that helps clear up Forbes 'we'll publish anyone' stance

www.forbes.com/sites/julianvigo/2018/12/27/pseudo-scientific-hokum-and-the-experimentation-on-childrens-bodies/

They really are in a state of panic now that they realise no-one has swallowed the identity bullshit

You cannot really blame a generation that has been brought up on gender ideology, as an explanation for their feelings of personal discomfort or distress around gender roles and stereotypes. It is not a conscious adoption.

There are natural overlaps between EVERYTHING in existence. We share most of our DNA with a chimpanzee. We are technically made of stardust. We are composed of mainly water. However that doesnt make us a chimp, the planet Mars or a cloud, does it?

The very tiny proportion of intersex people do not PROVE that male and female do not exist, or that the lines are blurred. They don't bridge the gap. They are a very specific third category, and nothing to do with trans whatsoever.

It is pseudo science, the new flat earthers, desperate to do all the mental gymnastics they can to root their mindset in reality.

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

i find a good indicator of sex to be, if this person had come to me as an adolescent saying they had just started bleeding from their genitals, would i rush them to a&e or give them a sanitary towel? turns out when you phrase it like that you can actually tell what sex practically everyone is really, really easily

Good point.

My 18 year old has not got their period yet. Should I worry? No because they are male. If they were female I'd suggest making a GP appointment.

Perhaps the religious right in America think this. GC feminists just think gender is bollocks

My feeling is that there is a mid-way point between the two positions.
There is a spectrum of possible expression in the two sexes. Females are obviously genetically and biologically programmed for pregnancy and child rearing, and all of the associated characteristics of personality/aptitude/attitude that tend to accompany that - generally speaking; and males are programmed to procreate as much as possible in order to disseminate their genes. At the extremes the differences between male and female brains are clear - even if there is much fluidity and cross-over between the two.

We share most of our DNA with a chimpanzee.

We share about 80% with nematode worms, I believe.

I am so sick of this stupid fucking bullshit argument. It's a demonstration of exactly how hard of thinking those who push it really are.

Many who oppose transgender rights believe that gender is determined solely by biological sex.
No we fucking don't, we think gender is stupid sterotypical bullshit, for the most part.

biological sex isn’t as straightforward as they likely think, and there is no one parameter that makes a person biologically male or female. In fact, many conditions make assigning a biological sex quite difficult.

Yes it is, and no it doesn't you wittering fool.

Despite the complexities, biological sex is often discussed as if it were obvious how to assign male or female sex.

Because it is, and it's not assigned , but observed.

"It’s the only type of body that gets you thrown on the funeral pyre when the husband dies. It’s the only type of body that gets your feet bound and your breasts ironed. It’s the only type made pregnant through rape and burned with acid, the only type expected to sit quietly and listen while we redefine it away, the only type men have spent millennia criticizing and critiquing and buying and selling until we suddenly decided we don’t even know what the fuck we meant this whole time."

Indeed. It's interesting that even though biological sex has now somehow become so esoteric and complex, when it comes to sex-based violence there has been no change at all. In fact, in some places in the world e.g.femicide in Central America, the violence has become even worse and more specifically targeted against women.

Oh right so gay men can stop using women as surrogates then. They just need to try harder.

If there’s no such thing as biological sex, how is there such thing as trans?

You cannot really blame a generation that has been brought up on gender ideology, as an explanation for their feelings of personal discomfort or distress around gender roles and stereotypes. It is not a conscious adoption.

I am not personally interested in blame. Humans are ridiculously susceptible to ideas as illustrated by the whole of human history.
Blaming anyone for driving or succummig to ridiculous ideas is a dead end.

Even Mermaids are innocent of anything but utter stupidity. Claiming physical mutilation as authenticity is obviously the product of a mindset that is credulous in a way that can best be described as gormless and gullible but humans have always been and always will be gormless on average. It's up to those who can see this happening to speak up and until we get to the point where where I will actually have my head chopped off and put on a spike at the Tower of London I will speak.

Many who oppose transgender rights believe that gender is determined solely by biological sex.

I think the writer is referring here to people who would deny trans-people ordinary human rights. People who actively promote the notion of gender but as following naturally and fixedly from sex and who see anyone who diverges from that societal 'norm' as abherrant.

Not people who object to gender ideology or the notion of gender.

A very wise woman has labelled this “the phalloci of complexity”.

It is intended to make people who know they aren’t biologists believe it is all so very, very complex. It isn’t. That is all.

Even Mermaids are innocent of anything but utter stupidity. Claiming physical mutilation as authenticity is obviously the product of a mindset that is credulous in a way that can best be described as gormless and gullible

There is a momentum pushing Mermaids, Stonewall, GIRES, GIDS etc - a kind of weird groupthink that means that no-one inside those organisations can safely apply the brakes, or the whole thing will topple.

The attack on Allison Bailey, as the personification of both the LGB Alliance and every bit of common sense that threatens them is proof, I feel.

The irony is that as gender questioning young people's numbers rise, a Mermaids (that supports all kids and doesn't automatically push for drugs and surgery) is all the more needed.

I think some people close to Mermaids know this. But they can't do anything about it without invalidating their entire operation, especially the fundraising.

So where once I would have agreed with you @FantaOra, I now think they aren't gullible and stupid, they are Dr Frankenstein unable to control this thing they have built.

@FantaOra

They really are in a state of panic now that they realise no-one has swallowed the identity bullshit.

Expect more flailing on the way down.

It's actually quite fun watching it.

Thats just it though, many, many people have swallowed the identity bullshit. So much so on the left that its being brought mainstream!