Hospital Infant Feeding Network - LGBTQI advice

[GCGayDad]

So I've just seen that the UK-bases HIFN - an organisation that promotes breastfeeding in hospitals - has devoted a week to tweeting advice to healthcate workers about encouraging "chestfeeding" even if it involves artificially induced lactation by transwomen parents.

twitter.com/HIFN12/status/1275353652266295296?s=19
"When supporting LGBTQ families, don't make assumptions about which parent is breastfeeding/chestfeeding (or that only one parent is doing so). Transgender & non-birthing lesbian parents may induce full or partial lactation with medications & pumping, and/or use a supplementer"

As the universally negative responses to these tweets point out, how are such practices helping the baby? It's just revolting.

And this organisation claims to be acting in support of LGBT people. I for one want nothing to do with this $h1t.

Similarly the US branch of the La Leche breastfeeding charity has amended its mission statement to totally erase women and mothers:
"La Leche League USA helps parents, families, and communities to breastfeed, chestfeed, and human milk feed their babies through parent-to-parent support."

lllusa.org/about-us/

We don't feed our babies from our chests. Babies are fed from breasts, whether their mother is straight or lesbian.

This regressive, anti-mother language, which is also inaccurate, doesn't help gay, lesbian or bi breastfeeding mothers.

Transmen who are comfortable enough to gestate, give birth and breastfeed a baby are welcome to call what they do 'chestfeeding' in their own family, but it's breastfeeding, and women do it with their breasts.

It’s so weird. ‘Chest’ refers to the cavity beneath the breasts (ie ‘chest infection’) and both men and women can get breast cancer, so why can’t they just use breastfeeding, regardless of how the breast-owner identifies?

As for inducing lactation with medication, well, I did that for a bit because my youngest had both a tongue tie and milk protein allergy, so it was important she be fed human milk, but couldn’t get my supply going adequately by herself.

It was a massive hoo-ha as the drug used (domperidone) isn’t licensed for this purpose and you have to take about ten times the normal dose and even the usual dose can result in heart problems (for the mother, only traces get through to the milk). Doctors are reluctant to prescribe and you can only take it for a short time period - you have to also pump and preferably use an at breast nursing supplement device so that you can get to drug-free feeding ASAP.

It’s pretty controversial and not worth the risks if you are unlikely to be able to wean yourself off it fast and breastfeed successfully for an extended period after.

I didn’t take any other regular meds whilst on it (and remember a row with a pharmacist over anti biotics for an ear infection - they wanted me to pump and dump for the duration of the course, despite the GP specifically choosing that one because it was also prescribed to infants and thus deemed safe). It’s unbelievable to me that breast feeding support professionals are now publishing materials that actively encourage non-mothers to take risks, that I, a post-partum woman was warned against just 8 years ago - and that was in the context of tangible long-term benefit to the baby. This is purely about the adult.

Groo.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domperidone

Is there an actual question here?

The question is 'how are such practices helping the baby?'

In answer to that question, it may help transmen who are breastfeeding their infants if support organisations and providers know that they may use the term 'chestfeeding'. And that helps the mother/baby dyad in those vanishingly small number of cases.

The inaccurate language does not help other mother and baby dyads.

La Leche league was always a bunch of swivel eyed zealots. It's laughable really that formula ( safely used for billions of babies) is viewed with such contempt by them but they are happy to advocate large doses of hormones to produce milk in a parent other than the mother.

What worries me is the false hope this provides for young trans men and women - “Don’t worry, even if you transition medically it won’t affect your ability to have children, and more than that, as a trans man or woman you can still take the role of your chosen gender!”

When post natal wards are so understaffed that women press the buzzer in the night and no one comes to help them feed their baby, (you know, with their uniquely adapted colostrum for their own baby) and new mothers are often discharged from hospital rapidly and not confident in their milk supply or latch, I just can’t see how faffing about trying to produce artificial lactation in another person is the best use of time or resources, when there’s no clear benefit for the baby at all.

I would imagine if having their breasts called breasts would be so triggering for a trans man then they would not be having a baby in the first place, that would have to be incredibly triggering, the whole process is as ‘female’ as you’re going to get.

Why are babies suddenly seen as experiments for the trans community and their advocates?

We as women are drilled in about not taking this medication, don’t take that medication, avoid this food etc for the safety of the babies.

Yet they are immediately bending over backwards handing out hormones left right and centre so that these female experiences can be achieved by anyone...at the risk of the babies they are so desperate to have

I would imagine if having their breasts called breasts would be so triggering for a trans man then they would not be having a baby in the first place, that would have to be incredibly triggering, the whole process is as ‘female’ as you’re going to get.

Exactly.

Followers of this thread might be interested in the Full Cream blog/ fb page. She’s a rad fem who writes about birth, breastfeeding, etc from a feminist perspective. I think I found her through this board but she doesn’t have many followers yet.

I went down this rabbit hole not long ago. For a male to produce milk there needs to be a significant drug regime. And the milk has a different nutrient composition that is not nutritious enough by itself.

This hasn’t been researched enough in my opinion. are these drugs being passed in the milk.

I also read one transwoman’s account and the comment was something like ‘no women talk about the sexual pleasure you get from a baby suckling your nipple’. Obviously, not all transwomen would be like this I would hope. However, comments in this light make me question is there a line being crossed here?

Rest assured, an increasing number of influential lactational consultants in the LLL U.K. are very critical of this erasure of women and twisting of language.

They're tentatively speaking out, those who can, sadly an awful lot of pro bf mega slinging types are SJW and it's all be kind, suicide, blah blah.

There's enough of us lentil weavers who get it though

What worries me is the false hope this provides for young trans men and women - “Don’t worry, even if you transition medically it won’t affect your ability to have children, and more than that, as a trans man or woman you can still take the role of your chosen gender!”

It's worth watching the second episode of Leo on bbc. Leo is filmed having to go through all this and deciding to have eggs frozen etc. It's clearly very traumatic.

I also read one transwoman’s account and the comment was something like ‘no women talk about the sexual pleasure you get from a baby suckling your nipple

Oh dear God this is revolting. And a huge red flag. No child would be safe in this person's house.

@Soubriquet

Why are babies suddenly seen as experiments for the trans community and their advocates?

We as women are drilled in about not taking this medication, don’t take that medication, avoid this food etc for the safety of the babies.

Yet they are immediately bending over backwards handing out hormones left right and centre so that these female experiences can be achieved by anyone...at the risk of the babies they are so desperate to have

Absolutely.

It's laughable really that formula ( safely used for billions of babies) is viewed with such contempt by them but they are happy to advocate large doses of hormones to produce milk in a parent other than the mother.

This. I'm a huge breastfeeding advocate, but this is ridiculous. Women are constantly told (wrongly) that they need to stop breastfeeding if they take a short course of certain types of antibiotics FFS.

Also, I also read one transwoman’s account and the comment was something like ‘no women talk about the sexual pleasure you get from a baby suckling your nipple. Disgusting. I mean, how much more clear does it need to be: harming a baby to facilitate a sexual fetish. Poor, poor baby. I hope it's not true.

“I also read one transwoman’s account and the comment was something like ‘no women talk about the sexual pleasure you get from a baby suckling your nipple”

What a disgustingly disturbing statement! Breastfeeding, for me, was more painful than childbirth. Even if it wasn’t that painful, I simply cannot imagine experiencing any sexual pleasure while breastfeeding my daughter. Anyone who equates breastfeeding with sexual pleasure has zero understanding what breastfeeding is all about and what it actually feels like🙄

I can't see any benefit to the baby of chemically-induced, inadequate lactation in males. Fathers have the perfectly adequate options of FF or bottle feeding EBM.

Great to hear that there is pushback in lentil weaving circles Neurotrash.

What a disgustingly disturbing statement! Breastfeeding, for me, was more painful than childbirth

Sexual arousal during breastfeeding is very much a thing. Here's one article but there are loads of similar articles saying similar.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3431754/

Anyone who equates breastfeeding with sexual pleasure has zero understanding what breastfeeding is all about and what it actually feels like

Don't assume your experience is universal.

www.liveabout.com/arousal-orgasm-and-breastfeeding-2982417

In one study of people who were breastfeeding, 40.5% of the participants reported feeling sexually aroused at some point during infant suckling. 16.7% reported being aroused frequently during breastfeeding. In another paper that reviewed several studies between 33-50% of respondents described breastfeeding as erotic (25% of those responded that way said they felt guilty about it)

Sheffield University did research on this and reported 30% admitting to being sexually aroused by bf.

Sexual arousal when breastfeeding is indeed a thing for some women, but it's not a thing that women celebrate. Much more likely to worry about whether it's weird or 'normal' or 'okay'.

Gosh, didn’t know that! I remember the oxytocin buzz that made you kind of besotted with your baby (Once you got past the toe curling and after pains of the early weeks) and feeling like a passenger in a body that seemed to be doing its own thing... but I’d never have described it as sexual. I suppose it makes sense though when you remember the various different functions of those hormones.

I guess the difference is feeling uncomfortable about the unintended side effect of a naturally occurring hormone surge vs consciously seeking sexual pleasure in something non-sexual and getting excited about the idea

Sexual arousal when breastfeeding is indeed a thing for some women, but it's not a thing that womencelebrate

Not a thing that women celebrate; if anything more likely to worry/ not mention at all / feel guilty and according to the research, give up bf.Blanket statements such as that is disgusting/ I cannot imagine that/ happening/ zero understanding of breastfeeding aren't in the least bit helpful to women.

zero understanding of breastfeeding aren't in the least bit helpful to women

I did breastfeed, it wasnt pleasant, I can categorically state there was no arousal for me. Therefore I would think a transwoman saying such things is disgusting. In fact I still think it's a disgusting thing for a transwoman to say. I also think about the baby in this situation, and I dont think this experiment will end well for the baby.