Is threatening rape a violation of agreeing to "live as a woman"?

[insideandout3]

To apply for a Gender Recognition Certificate one must:

-Be over 18
-Be diagnosed with gender dysphoria
-Lived in acquired gender for at least 2 years
-Intend to live in acquired gender for the rest of life

I know trying to pin down specifics of what "acting like a woman" means is a fool's task, but if we're to take the rules of gender woo seriously then surely threatening to use your penis to rape someone would count as not living as acquired gender 'woman'.

Should MtF transgender persons who issue rape threats on social media be brought up on charges of fraud for misleading authorities about "living as women" when they are continuing to "live as men"?

Nope - the received wisdom would be that it's a female penis. & therefore also evidence that women threaten/carry out rapes just like men.

Don't know about fraud, but threatening rape is a criminal offence.

How many of these people have been reported and tracked down? They're not even banned from twitter: I picked out at random a twitter user who messaged "JKR the transphobic fuck can suck my dick and choke on it" and the account is still up and running.

The advantage of accepting that men can get pregnant and women can get erections is that “living as a woman” is even more meaningless than before.

It should do IMO.

Well there are an estimated 200,000 - 500,000 trans people in the UK and there have been fewer than 5,000 GRCs issued since 2004, so that’s what around 300 per year, so I would assume that the majority of trans people aren’t quite as committed to the process as they would have us believe.

It's certainly inconsistent behaviour imo. Sure women can sometimes be violent or use threats of violence, but there seems to be something lacking in female authenticity with trans aggression. Obviously I'm not suggesting all of them, or even most of them, are aggressive like that. But how many women would threaten people with rape because you disagree with them? Most men wouldn't do it either, but it's very curious as female behaviour.

What Singing said.

@PurpleCrowbarWhereIsLangCleg

Nope - the received wisdom would be that it's a female penis. & therefore also evidence that women threaten/carry out rapes just like men.

Can you link to evidence to support this?

Considering the HoL had a visiting speaker who was a TW convicted of serious sexual offending against females, I doubt it. I know there's been discussion here before against imprisoned serial rapists - and lets be honest about this, with less than 1% of rapes even prosecuted, anyone in prison for serious sexual offending has done something really terrible to at least one female - finding that their crimes and risk to females was no barrier to them being granted a GRC.

The gatekeeping has long gone. The answer is to hand out official legal recognition certificates like smarties. Anyone, any time, on a whim, reverse it tomorrow, go for it, so it's in anyone's power with full equality to identify how they like when they like.

However these identify the official named, chosen identity, be that TW, NB, GN etc, without a legal fiction of sex change happening so official documentation holds both sex and gender identity and there is no access to single sex spaces unless you are born that sex with third spaces fully available. Grandfather clause the GRCs currently in existence.

Job done.

My previous post has been dissapeared.

My post stated that you should ask:

"How many males calling themselves women have been arrested for/convicted of rape?"

"How many females have been arrested for/convicted of joint enterprise in assisting a male to rape?"

The same for sexual assault.

I actually think this is quite a good idea. We should try it.

I've been thinking about this for the last few weeks and wrecking my brain to think of examples where women might respond to an argument with rape threats. I honestly don't think I've ever come across this with the exception of MtF social media users. I know it's hard to define living as a woman but I can't see that rape threats are female be behaviour - certainly not en mass as a tactic to shut down conversation.

@PurpleCrowbarWhereIsLangCleg

Nope - the received wisdom would be that it's a female penis. & therefore also evidence that women threaten/carry out rapes just like men.

You are right. This is the correct interpretation if you have drunk the Queer Theory cool aid.

If Freddie Seahorse could legally become a man and immediately have fertility treatment and still be seen as living as a man then anything is possible.

I don't think there have been any convictions for breaches of gender recognition certificates.

I've been trying to understand which part of 'womaning' is key in the whole debate. The gender identity ideology seems to base its whole premise on the existence and conformance to gender stereotypes. I imagine that I would be fairly safe in saying that in a very broad sense, women are generally considered to be caring, empathetic, good at listening, good at growing babies and conditioned (to a certain extent) to give way to others. In general I would argue that we are better suited to looking after babies than men down to the complex hormones and brain changes experienced after giving birth. I am emphatically not saying that all women do this, or that if you don't behave like this you are not a woman (if you were born female) just that this is the stereotypical behaviour that we would generally associated with being a woman. So I can't reconcile this concept of 'woman' with the violence, demanding and pushiness we continually see from the activists and wonder which aspect of 'woman' do they actually identify with - what is their measure of 'woman' by which they judge whether they are or not?

I don't think anyone can choose to "live as a woman" you either are one or you aren't

That FTT got their GRC and then got pregnant which has to be as contrary to “living as a man” as possible. I therefore conclude there is literally nothing that would preclude you.

Is it possible to find out if a GRC has ever been declined?

About the speaker @Michelleoftheresistance mentioned..

"In 2003, aged 21, she was sentenced to life imprisonment after admitting to the attempted rape of a female shop assistant in the north of Manchester.

She forced a forced a lemon into the woman's mouth, punched her in the face and held her by the hair in a back room of Transformations, a shop in Prestwich for men who wish to buy and wear female clothing and accessories.

The attempted rape was so terrifying the woman told the police she thought she was going to die and the attack only ended when Jones failed to become aroused.

At the time, she was living in a female bail hostel, having presented as a transwoman, called Karen Louise Lawson, though was sentenced under her birth name of Mark John Jones.

She was reported as having 'carried out the attack as a cry for help so that she could go back to prison and have the sex change operation she had needed all her life.'

However, sentencing her to life, Judge Derwent Hope said: 'Until you have full and proper treatment, I consider you to be potentially an extremely serious risk to any member of the public you associate with, a risk that could easily lead to that person's death.'

Jones' name was added to the sex offenders' register for life.

Lord Patel, who is chairman of the Community Innovations Enterprise, which aims to change government policy on a range of diversity issues, was fully aware of Ms Jones' criminal past.
Lord Patel, who is chairman of the Community Innovations Enterprise, which aims to change government policy on a range of diversity issues, was fully aware of Ms Jones' criminal past
The attempted rape had come just as she had been released on licence from prison in 2002, having served less than half of a five year sentence for manslaughter.

She had killed Mr Cutler while living as an 18 year old man claiming she had been provoked during a heated row.

A psychiatrist's report later diagnosing Gender Identity Disorder as a significant factor in Jones' claimed loss of control before the killing.

Jones had wrapped Mr Cutler's body in a sheet and duvet, leaving it in a utility room at their flat in March 2000.

It was found three weeks later, but was so badly decomposed that a pathologist could not ascertain the cause of death.

An associate of Ms Jones contacted MailOnline to express concerns that she is being held up as 'some sort of fountain of knowledge on transgender issues' when she has a history of severe violence.

The source said that Jones had changed her name twice to keep people from finding about her past, adding: 'It's all very uncomfortable.

'She may be well placed to talk about what it's like to be a transgender offender, but going into the House of Lords seems like a tacit signal that what she did to her victims doesn't matter.'

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/01/24/these-powerful-stories-from-two-trans-ex-offenders-remind-us-why-we-need-to-support-trans-rights-today/

I don't think anyone can choose to "live as a woman" you either are one or you aren't

Careful now!

Imagine if 'living as a woman' was defined as 'doing most of the housework'. Give it three months and the whole thing would crumble.

Oops, pressed post too soon...
The text I pasted is from www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5440153/Trans-convict-invited-speak-House-Lords.html

The Pink News article interviews her but doesn't refer to any of her convictions.

She's horrific - I knew her a couple of years ago before I found out who she actually was.

Thank you Cake for sharing that, I couldn't remember the details.

They're engraved on my brain

I asked her if it was true that she attempted rape in order to go back to prison as a route to transitioning. She said that she actually did it because she wanted to make someone else 'feel as bad as she did' (in terms of dysphoria to an extent, but also in terms of duplicating her previous experiences of being a victim of sexual violence).

I spent a long time trying to pinpoint my discomfort when I first met her - I felt a bit like a mouse in front of a poised snake but couldn't work out why. She constantly had sexualised music videos on in the background when I went round, I remember saying to someone that she reminded me of a teenage boy. She did lots of heavy drinking on the scene etc , and also told me she was involved in our local LGBT team of 'street angels' - I later found out that the police had warned them when she moved to the area and she was explicitly not allowed to be part of the group.
I do believe that she is not a 'safe' person.

I was so naive - when I met her, I accepted she was just a butch lesbian; I didn't even clock that she was trans.

After I accidentally found out about her history, I felt really stupid and also really scared. I did spend a bit of time talking to her about what she did, and then couldn't cope with knowing about any of it.
Sorry for the me-rail, I just have too much stuff still kicking around in my brain about her, and nowhere else for it to go.

Thankfully she moved away last year; I used to find seeing her all the time even after I stopped speaking to her really distressing.

And yet again, sounds like an example of someone who has been abused looking to abuse someone else in turn... so
Sad.

I am certainly not condoning it - what’s needed is major intervention, not transitioning, and certainly not access to vulnerable women. I really have the feeling a lot of people (both those transitioning and professionals) embrace “trans” as a simplistic answer to a deep and complex problem with a person’s trauma/mental health.