Would it be reasonable to have a pinned FAQ on the feminism board?

[JellyFishSquish]

It came to me reading about Trying to Understand the hate. Many assumed the OP was doing the same-old same-old: "you guys are meanies, why can't you just be kind, there is so much transphobia here!" and it turned out the OP soon admitted there were things they had not considered. The lovely vixens of MN set about explaining their points very eloquently, as they so often do, and it was (is) a very informative thread.

And it is a work of wonder to watch when the world unfolds in this way, and the many lurkers following the thread will also learn the nuances of suicide stats, safe spaces, threats to women, etc. at the same time. I have learned so much from these threads that explore the details of the issues, and followed up ideas by researching them later on my own. All good.

The trouble is the bad faith posters. When mumsnetters are faced with someone trying to wind them up it is often hard not to "feed the trolls" and post on the thread. Many times the threads and their arguments go round and round. The trolls love this of course. If we had a FAQ we might be able to direct them to "see FAQ no. 47", say. This does mean that goady questions would have to be included, but the answers should be very straightforward, respectful, and the best answer with the information we have at the moment.

For instance:

What are the suicide stats for transwomen in the UK?

What is the "cotton ceiling"?

When trans people pass, would you really want the trans women in men's bathroom and the transmen in the womens?

And some topical ones, for instance (sorry Kelcat9494 for using your question, slightly altered, but it does stand as an example of the type of question we see quite often):

JKRowling said only women have periods, this isn't true though is it? Some biological women aren't able to have periods or carry a pregnancy so if we don't see that as a problem then why is trans-men having a period a problem and trans women not having one an issue?

The answer would include the failure in logic and also explain issues around transwomen erasing women's ability to describe their biological functions which is why "transwomen not having one is an issue".

Just a thought. And no, I don't volunteer to write the FAQ!

Uhmmm... Yes although it runs the risk of seeming like the responses are what everyone on here thinks, when they may not. I think there might be a case for some very very carefully phrased topic headlines and then linking to some good threads on them...

Who would write it?

I think linking to the 'break it down for me' thread is a good way of achieving this

Of course MaryRaddy this is not a hive mind, and while some Q's would have straightforward answers, some would need more detail and qualifying.

I've thought before that something like this would be useful, but then I saw something similar by a TRA and every single "GC question" that they answered was the biggest load of straw man shite I'd ever seen. Now, I don't think for a second that the author had written their article in good faith (and to be perfectly frank their arguments weren't even convincing when they were fighting against a straw man, which is almost impressive). But I'd be worried of a similar problem arising here. Some questions would be useful, like "what does the equality act actually say on single sex spaces?", "what are the requirements to get a GRA?" etc, legal/policy questions with factual answers. But opinion questions with opinion answers, like "Which toilet do you think Buck Angel should use?" run the risk of either turning into straw man questions or presenting an opinion answer that not everybody shares.

I think the Kathleen stocks essay "having better conversations about sex and gender" would be a good thing to start directing people to though. It addressed lots of commonly used arguments if I remember correctly.

I have thought before this could be useful. What if there were a thread started for each point and thread could then include arguments and links to stats evidence etc?

Good points, Grabthar.

I don't think it's appropriate nor something mn would be willing to do because it would look like an official endorsement for the points made in the pinned message.

MN has made it clear that they will allow debate as they value free speech and the lived experience and views of women however I think what you are asking would greatly undermine that position and that policy.

I also don't think it would solve the problem as you'd still get people asking the same question.

That would that lead to grumpy posters telling them to read the pinned thread rather than engaging with them properly.

As much as it might feel a pain in the arse to repeat the same things over and over again I think it is a necessary part of the process of successfully winning any argument of note. Patient, calm and intelligent responses have value that can't be replicated in a pinned post which eventually dies from a lack of engagement.

So it's a big no from me.

Also you aren't going to get universal agreement on explanations nor arguments put forward as so many people have different views and a slighty different perspective on different angles of this.

It's a lazy response when hard work is needed.

MHHQ have removed all stickies (and several quite valuable ones vanished into into the mass). That was a definite policy decision.

Only MNHQ threads and sponsored threads get pinned now. I don't think there would be much appetite to treat one board differently

Fair 'nuff.

I’ve got an idea for a thread that sort of fits this brief but set up in a specific way to hopefully enable a non-combative exchange. I will be inviting members of FWR to participate.

I’m in the middle of a very big house move at the moment so it’s on the back burner but I’ll work on it as soon as I can (probably in a few weeks time).

I'd like to see a glossary/guide to abbreviations pinned to this board. It took a while for me to get familiar with GC/TWAW/GRA/GRC/NAMALT/truscum etc etc.

It's only within the last couple of weeks I've come across (and deciphered) DARVO and HSTS.

For newcomers, this is a whole new language that is baffling and possibly off putting.

My feeling is that it would be difficult to do this without it seeming very biased.

However, I do think it might be ok and useful to have something particularly linked to statistics. So suicide rates would be obvious, or stats about who is being treated at clinics, etc. Maybe things like information about effects of puberty blockers.

But they would have to be restricted to very strong sources, not ones that are going to be seen to have an agenda. Transgender Trend is a great site, for example, but not where I'd send someone who was doubtful to see stats.

I think it will have to be kept to a normal thread as pinning it isn’t really feasible for various reasons already mentioned.

What I am going to do, though, separate to the thread I’ve already mentioned above, is build up my own archive of links to useful threads, so that I don’t have to search back through the full board myself every time I want to refer a pp to them. That’s one thing you could do, too, OP, and the more people do that it would go halfway to providing an signpost to an unofficial archive of FAQ/answers.

That sounds great Ninkanink

And I have also needed help with abbreviations in the past EdgeOfACoin

I have to agree that the possibility of bias means MN would say no to the suggestion as conceived in my OP. Just a mad moment I guess. Will await Ninkanink's thread

I've just joined up to endorse EdgeOfACoin that it would be useful to have a glossary of abbreviations. I've been lurking for a while and still don't understand them all.

If someone wants to start a glossary and definition thread with a good, clear title to make it easily identifiable I’m sure lots of people would contribute.

Would probably be a good idea to also put in the OP that it’s not intended to be a discussion thread about the terms and/or their definitions but rather, a general and unofficial resource thread for reference purposes (helps to cut down on potential derailment/discussion/arguing ).

It's meant to be a feminism board, surely, and not a trans rights discussion board, though I appreciate that this is what it has become, for better or worse.

Personally I wish there'd be a separate board so that it would be possible to discuss the many other feminism-related issues that are affecting far far more womens' lives worldwide than trans rights, though I understand why MNHQ might not want to do this.

If woman no longer means woman then literally every other issue women face can never again meaningfully be addressed. If you can’t see sex you can’t see sexism.

So the danger of trans ideology is absolutely central to women’s rights and protections on every level and cannot be separated from those rights and protections in any meaningful way. Which is why it’s talked about so much here. And as I say every time, women have been forced into this. We did not cause it, we are not blame for it.

There was this FAQ thread a while back:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3335962-Frequently-Asked-Questions-FAQs-I-have-noticed-here

If woman no longer means woman then literally every other issue women face can never again meaningfully be addressed. If you can’t see sex you can’t see sexism.

Why? Even if you completely disagree with self ID, the inclusion of a small number of people who depending on your view were born and/or remain male does not negate issues for the vast bulk of women born women. Some people born women don't menstruate but doesn't mean feminism can't focus on issues related to menstruation. Similarly some women are racist, sexist Fox news presenters, but we can still be anti-racist.

I suspect that you and I disagree on some trans rights issues, though unlike many on Twitter, for example, I DO agree that a debate needs to be had.

However I cannot see the logic behind the idea that defining someone with a penis as a woman or not is such a cornerstone of feminism that it should overwhelm the board to the point that issues from FGM (no, not a trans related one) to Black Lives Matter, to the impact of coronavirus become impossible to discuss. It's hurting us all.

As a pp said, I have a note on my phone with many, many links to articles and also a few mn threads as they get easily lost in the ether.

It's always helpful to have the break it down for me thread to link other posters to.

At the same time, the thread yesterday turned into a good thread discussing the points she found confusing which will always help anyone reading.

The other factor to consider is that there's not a completely homogenous view and so it wouldn't be appropriate for fwr to have a sticky. It's actually important to ask questions to generate more discussion and view points. That's the point of free speech.