Found on a blog about Netflix’s Disclosure

[risefromyourgrave]

Far too meta for me I think.
Link to full article:
therepresentationproject.org/trans-representation-in-netflixs-disclosure/

From the link, my bold because I don’t understand how women have culturally appropriated transwomen

“The new documentary Disclosure (Netflix) expands on these themes and shows how Hollywood’s white, patriarchal history—replete with gender tropes—has also affected the transgender community. The film shows how clumsy representation of trans and gender-nonconforming people on-screen informs opinions that have real-world safety and economic implications for the one million+ transgender Americans.

GLAAD conducted research showing that in 2019, 82% of Americans reported that they did not personally know any trans people. That leaves the vast majority of Americans to learn about transgender people through what they see on screen—which has ranged from the butt of jokes (Ace Ventura) to people who should not be trusted (The Crying Game) to dangerous criminals (The Silence of the Lambs) to crime victim (Boys Don’t Cry). And when audiences are trained to objectify and dehumanize trans people based on what they see on screen, they can be prone to act on misplaced fears that were sold to them by Hollywood on real human beings. And that creates a culture of violence for trans people, particularly trans women of color.

Featuring Laverne Cox, Candis Cayne, Jen Richards, and more than a dozen transgender artists sharing screen history and first-person testimonials, Disclosure is important viewing for anyone who is passionate about improving gender representation in Hollywood as a step toward culture change. The film is a master class in the entertainment industry’s sexist and racist representations of women, transgender people, and Black men from Hollywood’s earliest days through today. The documentary explores a myriad of transgender representation issues— including the cultural appropriation of trans women by straight, cis women (Madonna & The Kardashians), transmasculine representation, casting decisions, problematic representation in popular shows like The L Word, stealth living, the invasiveness of disclosure, and so much more.“

Also wasn’t aware / can’t remember that the films listed had transgender people / characters in them. Now I do have a terrible memory so could be that, or is this another case of retrospectively adding trans where there was none?

The films listed did as far as I remember.

The films listed did as far as I remember.

Thanks - I have a terrible memory for everything films and I swear I can watch a film twice and swear I’ve not seen it before so I’ll go DuckDuckGo

Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs is not trans. This is stated in the book and the film.

I think The Crying Game's trans character is sympathetic. It's a long time since I've seen it, but doesn't the male character love her anyway?

And Boys Don't Cry is a sympathetic portrayal true story.

So, weird examples to give tbh.

(I've never seen Ace Ventura as I can't stand Jim Carey.)

I would say trans representation on film isn't bad. My main memories are of The Crying Game, Transamerica and Terence Stamp in Priscilla Queen of the Desert, all hugely positive portrayals.

Showing people dressing up as the other sex for other reasons isn't anti-trans - eg the drag characters in Priscilla, Mrs Doubtfire and Tootsie for example. Nothing to do with trans issues unless you say that telling unrealistic stories and/or pretending it's easy to pass is anti trans.

Ace Ventura has a long scene when the “hero” is very transphobic. The transwoman also turns out to be the villain.
No apologies For the spoiler because I don’t recommend the movie!

By the way does anyone remember that Bechdel test? A ridiculously low threshold. Ace Ventura does have two named women talking in one scene, but it’s about “Pet detective” Ace. That’s the best this movie can offer for the Bechdel test...
Incidentally I tried to fact check that Bechdel result. it took ages because google kept telling me about the transphobia, wouldn’t let me find hits about the misogyny...

Ace Ventura is very transphobic and cruel so fully deserves any criticism it gets in that score.

I think when it comes to the cultural appropriation of trans women by the Kardashians then that may have been the other way round.

Oh they can fuck off accusing women of appropriation.

Oh they can fuck off accusing women of appropriation.

well, that was my first thought, but I’m not too smart, so thought I’d maybe read it wrong.

Yeah Ace Ventura is pretty transphobic to be fair - although Jim Carrey's character does react in the way most men would I think (because toxic masculinity means that a straight man kissing another man is like the worst thing eveeeerrrrrrrrr!).

I always hated the way the shower scene took the piss out of rape victims as well.

And the film takes the piss out of people with psychiatric problems as well.

It's a terrible film really isn't it?!

However accusing women of 'appropriation' of men who are pretending to be women, is ridiculous!

Crocodile Dundee has a horrible scene where he sexually assaults a transwoman and everyone laughs. I hated that scene so much when I saw it.

How have Madonna and Kim Kardashian 'culturally appropriated transwomen'? What a load of bollocks.

Also, I think it's very telling that they choose to focus on the 'cultural appropriation' by those awful 'straight cis women', when the vast majority of transphobia in TV and film has come from men.

I have been meaning to watch this as a transwoman I am acquainted with (via their dad ) is in it.

I’m sure some of it will be totally legitimate criticism (as in the horrible Crocodile Dundee scene described above) and some will be a massive overstretch (saying that male actors playing transwomen characters contributes to the supposedly extremely high trans murder rate - a clip I’ve seen on Facebook).

www.facebook.com/netflixus/videos/585113292147850/?

Anyway, if TWAW how can it be possible for W appropriate TW?
It’s incoherent, they cannot logistically both be true.
I can see how the same appropriation argument could be made
re: women and drag queens (but drag culture a) shouldn’t be considered sacred enough to be off limits for appropriation and b) drag appropriates from women anyway so it’s cyclical appropriation 🙃

Wow. Ace Ventura sounds worse than I could ever have imagined.

You cant expect these things to be logical and fair, DuDuDu , come on now!

The accusations against Madonna I'm guessing are to do with the concept of Vogueing which she took from NYC ballroom culture in the 80s/early 90s and made mainstream and popular.

Really if anything it's more gay appropriation as the majority of dancers were gay men. There's a Netflix doc tracking the lives of the men she took on tour with her as dancers.

Kardashian I think must be to do with style of dress/make up/surgery. I also dispute this because the recent trend with young women for contouring, caterpillar brows and generally very OTT make up has been popularised as drag hit mainstream with shows like drag race. So again really it comes from largely gay male culture.

I'm surprised they complain about this because honestly it works in their favour. When the drag queen/Kardashian look falls out of favour for young women - and it will because all trends pass it's going to be harder for a lot of TW to blend in. Heavy make up (online at least) provides a lot of camouflage.

But I thought the mantra was TWAW. If that's true women can't appropriate women.

Ace Ventura is genuinely trans/homophobic. It’s a revolting film.

I can’t read the article at the moment but yes, trans people have been portrayed very negatively in movies over the years (unlike women - sarcastic eye roll). It is fair to call that out. DePalma’s Dressed To Kill depicts a trans/cross dresser as a psychotic killer which at the time was such an easy target. Of course DePalma isn’t great about women either, so...
The World According To Garp has a sympathetic trans character played by John Lithgow.

It’s very tricky to get into the whole Psycho/Deranged/Texas Chainsaw Massacre/Silence of the Lambs as they are all (at least loosely) based on Ed Gein - a man who murdered women, dug up women’s corpses and tried to make a “woman suit” out of their flayed skin. He also wore their faces as masks. Strangely no one seems to be posthumously trans him.

Sunset Beech- yes, Buffalo Bill is described as being turned down for reassignment surgery (iirc) but would he be under the Stonewall umbrella these days? I think yes.

Yes I'd say classic example of Blanchard's typology (how Bill is described psychologically, not being a serial killer, obviously). Would absolutely be under the trans umbrella according to Stonewall.

I think Silence of the Lambs is transphobic. The claim that he's not trans is weak, contextually. It's a figleaf to say, "he's not trans at all..." when it's also said that he asserts/thinks that he is, and he literally makes a woman suit from dead women to try to be one. I mean, it's a really good film, but in retrospect it's hardly great representation. And that was back in the day, when old-school transsexuals were rare and hadn't the legal protections anyone under the ever-expanding trans umbrella does today.

Never seen Ace Ventura and have no desire to do so. I do know what they mean about trans person as victim in Boys Don't Cry though - I remember my cousin acidly commenting that lesbians on TV always ended up dying, in the 1990s! If representation is tragic and focused on the identity rather than the character then I can see why that winds people up. Same problem as the way, when I was a kid, that any Indian sub-Continent characters had arranged marriage storylines as a matter of course.

The appropriation makes me roll my eyes, though. Yet again, women are in the wrong.

British people's main impression of transwomen is Hayley Cropper from Corrie, who couldn't have been more positive as a portrayal. Near saintly character, in fact. So I'm not sure the argument works here.

If Brandon Teena had ridden off into the sunset at the end of Boys Don’t Cry that would have been a kick in the teeth to the real Brandon. He was murdered for being trans!

And had he not been murdered it’s very unlikely there would’ve been a film about him.

What's the point in banging on about old films though. Many things used to be acceptable that aren't now.
Silence of the Lambs was written over 30 years ago ffs.

So from now on is there to be no films/books where a trans character is anything other than a hero?

The only thing that remains constant is misogyny.

Whatsnewpussyhat- now you’ve made me feel old! 😂