Feminist action against racism

[jeanralphio]

There's a lot of discussion about what feminists can and should be doing to be anti-racist, and I wanted to start a thread to discuss ideas.

This isn't for bashing white feminists, or for arguments that not all white women are like xyz; those are happening on other threads. Nor is it about BLM, the organisation. While I support the movement, not a fan of the organisation. Again, other threads to debate this on.

One suggestion on another board was about white women in positions of hiring power could look for specific opportunities to hire/support BAME women. It's a great starting point, but many of us aren't in this position.

Any thoughts?

My own starting point has been to read. ' Black and British' has been a fascinating book, and will absolutely inform the way I teach (I teach English) looking for texts that aren't like 'Of Mice and Men' where Black people are represented, but primarily as victims and instead include BAME British, female voices that counteract this sort of narrative that kids have been overexposed to for so long.

I was pondering texts a minute ago. When I first studied Eng Lit there was a real attempt to bring female voices into the canon. In the last five years (having gained little traction in the interim) the focus has been almost exclusively on black and indigenous voices. The texts studied (at post sec and post-grad) have replaced the female voices (leaving the old white dudes unscathed as ever). I’m not familiar with the current uk English school curriculum.
We’ve been working on community outreach and volunteering to promote humanities subjects and move beyond the old white men trope. (It’s a cynical move based on proving relevance and ensuring funding). Possibly right thing for wrong reasons
I’m still pissy that women are being erased again though.

I should add that it is virtually impossible to get an academic role as a white woman now the most recent three posts at my last school were two white men (one gay) and a transwoman of colour.

"I should add that it is virtually impossible to get an academic role as a white woman now"

And straight away we have people complaining about how hard it is for white women

I agree - feminism exists to support all (biological) women.

What can feminists do to support all women? For example, women living in communities where religion and traditional patriarchal values have a powerful grip. Or women and girls who are drawn into gang culture, or are the victims of it. Or women facing racial prejudice in the workplace. Rather than focusing on the supposed shortcomings of white feminists, let's come up with some ideas.

I read that as more about women being overlooked in favour of men - but I also see how it reads that way. Come back to the OPost - what can we concretely do?

Sorry that was in response to @CloudsCoveredTheSky

@jeanralphio if you're white, it might read that way

What can you concretely do? Listen when BAME women speak.

Just listening seems a bit lame and passive, frankly.

I'm not saying that white women should be the ones deciding what needs to happen next but change requires listening to BAME women and action based on their experiences.

What are the aims of feminists? To make sure women and girls are treated as the social, economic and political equals of men and boys, while acknowledging biological differences (e.g. abortion, maternity pay etc will not be a problem for males; and most violence is committed by male people, which is almost certainly not just down to social conditioning). Another feminist aim is to ensure that women's contribution to culture and our existence in history is given the same status as men's - that we aren't ignored and considered unimportant, as we always used to be.

Feminism is not first and foremost about tackling racism, homophobia, environmental problems, or other causes no matter how worthy. Feminism is first and foremost about women's rights.

So, to start: which women need the most support in obtaining social, political and economic equality with men? Where are they, and what can be done to help?

Thanks for starting this thread, op. I don't have any hiring power, but try to wield my spending power thoughtfully. Black Pound Day meant Black owned UK businesses were shared widely on social media and I discovered several quite close to home.

I live in a very white area, despite having grown up in places with totally different demographics. So I'm conscious of my own children's experiences of race and racism. I talk to them all the time about feminism, lack of female characters on their tv shows, etc and I've tried to include diverse and anti racist books in our home library, and talked about historical racism. I need to do more around modern day racism and feminism though- the classic book Amazing Grace would be good for that.

I suppose I'm saying that my points of action are supporting Black women owned businesses, trying to discuss and educate myself and my family, and lobby school to include Black women's history, literature and femisism on the curriculum. It doesn't feel like much tbh

"Just listening seems a bit lame and passive, frankly."

Where did I say just listen and do nothing?

I try and do what I wish more men would do when I talk to them about what it's like being a woman:
Listen.
Take it seriously.
Don't try and change the subject.
Acknowledge I have no idea what it's like.
Try not to get defensive - and learn to recognise it when it happens.
Don't say, 'But not all....'
Do say, 'What can I do?'

And no I don't manage it all the time, or even half the time.

@CloudsCoveredTheSky for whatever it's worth, I am BAME, but not black. Didn't think it needed qualifying in the OP. This is what I mean by not bashing white feminists. The comment the other poster made was clumsy, I can see that, as I said. But rather than focus on that, can we look for actual, concrete things to do in our actual daily lives to address the problem rather than complaining (yes, however validly) about other posters' comments and telling people to listen. It doesn't get us anywhere.

I am in a position at work where I can influence hiring decisions, (at a lower management level) I try to make sure I challenge hiring practises to encourage BAME applicants.

In my experience many have never been taught how to apply for roles, what a good cover letter and cv looks like or how to interview. This is just my experience in my role, I'm not saying this is applicable to all. I deal with a lot of colleagues in entry level positions and though many of them have similar issues it is more pronounced in BAME colleagues, particularly who are women.

The thing I've found most successful is mentoring. The BAME colleagues i
I've mentored, particularly the women tend to have different barriers to the recruitment process than their white counterparts. A lot of it, in my experience, tends to fall into a lack of confidence in expressing their achievements. When we talk through their interview examples they tend to downplay or brush off their part in the success of previous projects etc. It can take a lot of work to help them see how what they've done is impressive and worthy of being talked about.

I've also found that regardless of your background having a mentor in a higher position in the company who can recommend you for opportunities, and highlight your good work can make a big difference to your ability to get noticed and promoted.

In my home life I try to help my DD think about the experiences of other people. The Naughts and Crosses books were a fantastic kick starter to talking about privilege and prejudice.

My cousin is mixed race and I have seen the barriers she faces. I think we all are continuously learning, and have to continue to challenge our thought process, I took a bias test at work last year, and I was surprised at done things that came up.

For me, I think the biggest support we can offer is to the women around us. I'm not sure how I can help young women at risk from gangs in London, but I can help the young Black girl in my office who need someone to teach her how to apply for that promotion she needs.

Just my thoughts, but willing to learn if you think I've got it wrong.

Yes, hands up, crap wording. But I having read and watched a lot would like to move past listening only onto listening and action.

Have made donations in hopefully the right places and signed petitions.

I'm looking at internal work/club etc policies and the image they present and suggested changes with the relevant people where it looks like they could be creating barriers for bame people.

talking to my kids, even the youngest ones...

I live in a majority white area and removed my kids from a primary school whose Ofsted reported racism and homophobia amongst students that wasn't dealt with by staff.

I would like to do more.

Listen when BAME women speak.

Does that include BAME who disagree with identity politics or have issues with the way conversations about racism are framed?

Should say BAME women

The thing I've found most successful is mentoring.

I would agree that mentoring is far more valuable and useful than the sort of perfunctory diversity tick box approach used in most organisations and institutions these days.

@CloudsCoveredTheSky

"I should add that it is virtually impossible to get an academic role as a white woman now"

And straight away we have people complaining about how hard it is for white women

Lol I realise that’s how it looks - it was lazy posting, sorry. It was just a footnote really - that women in the academe are hierarchically lower as an entity in hiring terms. In the same way that women used to be the focus on drawing additional texts into the canon, it has now moved in favour of queer and racially marginalized voices, with no change to the over-arching prominence of old white men. It was more a note (on the feminist board) that nothing much changes in that regard. (The regard of old white men, with the flavour de jour of additional voices decided by them) I posted what I thought was an interesting article by Helen Lewis on the other thread (an hour or so before this one started) with ideas around social radicalism v economical radicalism. In terms of ‘what can we do’ I fall more in favour of her ‘economical radicalism’ stance: helenlewis.substack.com/p/the-bluestocking-woke-capitalism The canon thing was as aside as I’d already been talking about ‘what to do’ The ‘service learning’ thing I mentioned is an interesting idea in getting people out into marginalized communities but does rather run the risk of the white saviour complex.

Make sure to consider black women when voting.
If you work in positions of care/teaching/anywhere that you have influence over people you look after, check yourself and if you are subconsciously giving worse care/opportunities/thought into bame women. Even the most ‘I’m not racist’ people, can be more inclined to give better care to white people. Explained by the shitty stats and outcomes of black women.

Stop touching Afro hair or commenting on it, it’s rude.

Stop white washing everything, if bame women want to talk their experiences, stop turning everything around to make sure she knows the female part of her is the really truly oppressed part, generally it’s not.

Unless you’re blind, you certainly do see colour.

It’s not a competition of who/what characteristic is the most oppressed, stop trying to make it be the one you have in common.

@NonnyMouse1337

Listen when BAME women speak.

Does that include BAME who disagree with identity politics or have issues with the way conversations about racism are framed?

Probably not, white liberals like to keep us in the victim box, even when we are patently anything but.

Bit sad really the lack of responses on this thread compared to the thousands about a tweet JK Rowling made.

I think listening to voices you may not always agree with is important, so yes

Mentorship sounds great. It's this sort of colaborative approach to the workplace I think needs championing.

I've been thinking about this all month, well probably all year since we moved house.

Just so you can see my prejudices all laid out I am a white british subject who grew up oversease with BAME servants, went to boarding school and had a mother who didn't work but was definitely not a SAHM.

So far so posh

So what can I do? Well I live in a very diverse area. I volunteer with a Black sisters project. I turn up and make the tea so they can get on with what they need to do. I keep my mouth shut in real life and on the Whatsapp group that is attached to it. I make a point of talking to my black and aisian collegues at work. I keep talking to them and I never take it personally if they are having a bad day.

I attend a Black Lives Matter demo (or three) where I have been invited by BAME friends. I take the knee with them because I stand in solidarity with them. I don't donate to the cause because it's not centering BAME women - my money goes to Southall Black Sisters (I was born near there) and W.A.I.T.S. (Birmingham domestic abuse charity)

I examine my own biasis (Those that I know about) I listen to my friends. I remind myself again, the extra mile, extra effort, extra stress that my friends have to operate under and I count my blessings and try and raise up / amplify their voices.

I try and remain humble and remember that an accident of birth has influenced the way I am perceived in the world.

Couple of months ago I complained to my local library at lack of children's picture books with black children/families as main characters. I live in a mainly white area. It feeds into a publishing 'there's no demand narrative which hurts black authors and illustrators. Do the same in supermarkets etc.