Article on JKR and Hate Speech in Scotland

[Cismyfatarse1]

I thought people might find this interesting. The Hate Crime Bill is likely to cause GC women huge issues. www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bill-will-criminalise-those-who-challenge-the-church-of-woke-w5zm3rw7l?shareToken=2cb1136a6cbb4866b75998226ce09aeb

Is there any chance at all it won't pass? I've seen the justice minister getting a bit of heat for apparently not understanding the terms of his own Bill...

Interesting how 'choke on my fat girl dick' 'die in a fire' etc isn't hateful...

Maybe I'm overly optimistic but I think the article is reaching a little. If the bill aims to:
criminalises spoken and written words likely to “stir up hatred”

Then you'd have to show that hatred towards trans people was likely as a result of the words. In JK's example the opposite was true. Hateful words were actually directed towards women by transpeople and there was clear evidence of that. So not sure it would go anywhere.

It's so ironic that the Bill seeks to get rid of the blasphemy law and then immediately looks to replace it with the secular equivalent.

I despair at what is happening in Scotland with the erosion of women's rights. And this from a party led by a woman! But as long as Indyref gets top billing, the rest sneaks by unnoticed. Still not a single response from any of the MSPs I wrote to re the diversity on public boards issue

Then you'd have to show that hatred towards trans people was likely as a result of the words

My understanding is that, in England at least, a hate crime depends on how it is perceived by the "victim", not the person committing the crime. Which makes this:

"criminalises spoken and written words likely to “stir up hatred”, even unintentionally, towards people based on certain characteristics"

Very problematic. As I read it JKRs post alone would be considered hate speech by TRAs, which means that is how it would be treated. In addition her post garnered thousands of likes and retweets and inspired probably hundreds of spin off posts, media articles etc. Definitely stirring up...

This potential law is terrifying and incredibly poorly thought through. (I also strongly suspect it won't include sex as a characteristic)

It's so ironic that the Bill seeks to get rid of the blasphemy law and then immediately looks to replace it with the secular equivalent.

Well, God is a matter of opinion, but gender is mandatory, obviously.

(I suspect that the thing we're not allowed to blaspheme against actually starts with a p and ends with an s.)

Oh thanks for that article. I'll link to it in the other Hate Crime thread.

(I also strongly suspect it won't include sex as a characteristic)

They asked Engender who told them women didn’t need protection (unless they were Uber women obviously)

I also strongly suspect it won't include sex as a characteristic

The characteristics are—
(a) age,
(b) disability,
(c) race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or national origins,
(d) religion or, in the case of a social or cultural group, perceived religious affiliation,
(e) sexual orientation,
(f) transgender identity,
(g) variations in sex characteristics.

beta.parliament.scot/-/media/files/legislation/bills/current-bills/hate-crime-and-public-order-scotland-bill/introduced/bill-as-introduced-hate-crime-and-public-order-bill.pdf

This is the same as the set of protected characteristics under UK Hate Crime law but additionally includes "age" and "variations in sex characteristics".

Compared to the Equality Act 2010, these are the "missing" protected characteristics:
gender reassignment;
marriage and civil partnership;
pregnancy and maternity;
sex.

and then immediately looks to replace it with the secular equivalent

That is a really interesting point. There are so many political opinions from which dissent is increasingly impossible.

Has Joanna Cherry commented on this at all?

Hateful words were actually directed towards women by transpeople and there was clear evidence of that. So not sure it would go anywhere

I don't share your optimism, @WaltzingBetty

There is currently a story running on Twitter where a gender binary TRA attended a Glasgow SNP branch meeting and four months later (!) wrote an account of how traumatised he was because of the abuse he received. Mhairi Black MP, SNP women's officer (?!) Rhiannon Spear, Ian Blackford MP all piled in saying how shocking it was - no questioning or going to the actual branch. Attendees (including neutral branch chair) all say it's total fabrication and the meeting was respectful and orderly.

We are not talking about reasonable people. The SNP has too many of these bandwagon jumpers with the agenda of keeping themselves in a job first, the good of the country second (maybe even third, fourth or fifth!)

I have no confidence that any good legislation will come out on women's rights (and the only increasing crime in Scotland is violence and sexual assault of women)

That was reported yesterday in the Times as well Olly

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a36516f0-ba58-11ea-82eb-1588bf47a52f?shareToken=f6947882c6b9ed321414577fcf53b947

That is a really interesting point. There are so many political opinions from which dissent is increasingly impossible.

Indeed BovaryX, it gets more and more terrifying by the day.

And yes Kittens one must not blaspheme against the Church Of The "Great Hairy Prong"!

It also reinforces a sense I've had for a while that some people sort of need a religion on an emotional level. Doesn't have to be a God based one, it's the comforting belief structure that they seem to crave.

Let's make gender criticalness a religion. It will provide protection for it as a view and also be the most evidence based religion of all time

"God doesn't exist"

"Ours does, it's called science"

And why the efferty jeff is misogyny never a hate crime

But hasn’t this already kind of happened with Harry the Owl? He only retweeted a limerick and PC Gul called him to check his thinking.

And obvs that’s not the only example of ‘wrong think’ that’s ended up in court.

Now maybe they’ll try and mandate it.

@Broomfondle

And why the efferty jeff is misogyny never a hate crime

Well then all rape, sexual assault and domestic violence would have to be recategorised as a hate crime and that would be legislative nightmare to deal with so let's all just pretend that women are never attacked because of their sex.

And yes Kittens one must not blaspheme against the Church Of The "Great Hairy Prong"!

As a Scottish woman and mother I feel a bit sick about all of this. Rational thought is being policed. How can it possibly be hateful to point out biological facts? And why aren't more people questioning the fact that men aren't referred to as 'ejaculators' etc?

At times I almost feel like giving in, for the sake of my stress levels. I can't in good conscience, teach my children anything other than scientific fact, but I'd be doing so in the knowledge that if they expressed that to the wrong person, they could be committing a crime.

What a fucking mess this country is.

@Broomfondle

Let's make gender criticalness a religion. It will provide protection for it as a view and also be the most evidence based religion of all time

This is almost what Maya tried when she was accused of using “offensive and exclusionary” language in tweets opposing proposals to reform the Gender Recognition Act to allow people to self ID when she had her court case. It didn’t work - her view was not worthy!

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/18/judge-rules-against-charity-worker-who-lost-job-over-transgender-tweets

“Maya Forstater's view of sex 'not worthy of respect in democratic society', ... biological sex has lost a test case because her opinions were deemed to be “ absolutist”. ... JK Rowling in row over court ruling on transgender issues.“

Thanks for that @Igneococcus. Pretty measured piece - hope they keep their eye on the story because there is a huge backlash about the party's response.

The pictures of trans people "to mock their appearance" was a list of transgender prisoners who had been convicted of violent or sexual assaults against women. It's on Twitter. So not the personal attack alleged.