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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Daily Mail article on “Minor attracted persons”

92 replies

Siablue · 28/06/2020 08:54

This was in the Mail today. I wonder if the journalist reads this board.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8466899/Paedophiles-rebrand-minor-attracted-persons-chilling-online-propaganda-drive.html

Someone in comments mentioned that they got banned on Twitter for challenging someone about posting about being attracted to children Sad

OP posts:
Aesopfable · 28/06/2020 10:22

The article says “ Otep Shamaya, a gay rights campaigner, said: ‘They are a fiendish group of sub-humans and they will find no haven in the LGBTQ community.“

But they are finding havens within this community. The ‘Q’ particularly with ‘breaking down societal norms’. Just look at the response to the ASDA linked pack - where was the condemnation?

SerenityNowwwww · 28/06/2020 10:23

At last! I have been saying this to people (who remember PIE) and they all seem to think that they all just went away.

LouHotel · 28/06/2020 10:24

When the paper that has countdown clocks for when celebrity girls become 16 are the only ones reporting you realise how captured the left is.

SerenityNowwwww · 28/06/2020 10:24

@Siablue

The Guardian have failed massively on this issue. It does need to be sorted out by someone responsible before it gets to Tommy Robinson and internet paedophile hunters.
The guardian don’t give a XXXX - we have seen this time and time again with them.
wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool · 28/06/2020 10:34

“The age of consent is lower in some other European countries - it's 14 in Germany, Austria and Italy for example.

I wouldn't support the lowering personally but it is accurate to say it's a judgement call.“

It’s true that the age of consent differs from country to country, but in Europe, where it’s 14, there is written into the law an age bracket within which consensual sexual activity is deemed lawful and not rape. So that young people can have mutually consensual sexand not be prosecuted, but also predatory adults cannot take advantage of the age of consent. Of course this law has to be enforced and it often isn’t because girls don’t matter, do they? Everyone knows that.

Also, in countries where there is child marriage, girls aged 10 to 12 are raped by their husbands (there’s no possibility of consent here, they are too young and their husbands often 30 years or more their senior) then give birth before their pelvis is ready and die or are permanently disabled.

Personally, having had two children and been a girl who was sexually exploited and abused from the age of ten, I think 16 is the perfect age To consider a person can fully understand and give informed consent to sexual activity that is penetrative.

DishingOutDone · 28/06/2020 10:42

I can't believe they are openly and happily discussing it on Twitter, as if they know they are "safe" there - maybe they think lots will share their views.

We're talking about people not picking up on this, but this thread is in Feminism, its not the most popular topic (compelling as it might be) on Mumsnet, this sort of thing needs to be shouted from the rooftops of Chat or AIBU.

Soph88888 · 28/06/2020 10:49

Siablue, sorry but I don’t have a problem with prejudice against paedos

ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble · 28/06/2020 10:52

It's terrifying how a massive world wide campaign to silence and erase women was quickly piggy backed on by child abusers.
And a lot of that campaign also targets children , safeguarding etc.

I doubt it's a coincidence.

DidoLamenting · 28/06/2020 10:53

When the paper that has countdown clocks for when celebrity girls become 16 are the only ones reporting you realise how captured the left is

That was The Sun, not The Mail.

RoyalCorgi · 28/06/2020 10:54

The ‘Q’ particularly with ‘breaking down societal norms’. Just look at the response to the ASDA linked pack - where was the condemnation

Exactly. As soon as they added the Q and all the other letters to LGB they invited in all sorts of weirdos with undesirable fetishes.

I'm glad the MoS has brought this to public attention. I hope they do a bit more digging and start investigating the links between the MAPs and TRAs.

Miriel · 28/06/2020 11:02

In a sense, the line is always going to be arbitrary. I always find it jarring reading US sources describing someone having sex with a 17-year-old as a paedophile, and the 17-year-old as a child. Here, it'd be completely legal. Arguably immoral if there's a large age gap or power imbalance, but that'd be equally true were the younger partner 19. Taking a hypothetical country where the age of consent is 15 instead of 16, that shouldn't mean that to a British person, that country promotes paedophilia. It's just a slightly different dividing line.

The danger and the problem is when certain people look at this fuzziness around when exactly an adolescent has sufficient maturity for sexual relationships (which, in reality, will vary by individual, but laws can't account for that) and decide that it means that the whole concept of an age of consent is too flawed to have real meaning. Then you get PIE, and the extreme moral relativists who argue that ten-year-old brides are okay if it's 'culture' but completely wrong otherwise.

It's the leap from societal norms being socially constructed and not absolute to the idea that because of this, we shouldn't have any. A milder example of this is jumping from the idea that the nuclear family is to some extent a sociocultural construction, and other configurations are possible and should be recognised, to the 'dismantle the family' calls from some on the far left.

LouHotel · 28/06/2020 11:06

@didolamenting I'll reframe as internal countdown clocks - there sidebar of shame automatically updates when a teenage girl become fair game. Cindy Crawfords daughter is the best example I've seen.

ComeBy · 28/06/2020 11:06

The age of consent and paedophilia are different things.

Both important, and some links.

But paedophilia is sexual attraction to pre pubescent children.

However, we can easily see that the Jensen / Harrop exchange could fuel ‘MAP’ apologists with undeveloped thinking skills.

Soontobe60 · 28/06/2020 11:08

@Pertella

havelock
That's the one
Freespeecher · 28/06/2020 11:09

LouHotel
I dimly remember it being done with Charlotte Church. I thought it had stopped after that, obviously not.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 28/06/2020 11:09

@LouHotel

When the paper that has countdown clocks for when celebrity girls become 16 are the only ones reporting you realise how captured the left is.
Oh, god, no. Tell me this is not true. Envy (not envy)
ComeBy · 28/06/2020 11:09

The Harrop / Jensen type conversation also potentially distracts from issues like ‘MAPS’ attracted to 7 year olds and their ubiquitous ‘DMs open’ . Etc.

ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble · 28/06/2020 11:11

The age of consent is a red herring. Pedophilia means being attracted to prepubescent children. You'll be hard pressed to find a country with an age of consent so low that it would make it legal or confusing.

SarahTancredi · 28/06/2020 11:27

You lot pointed this out years ago. We all know who got allowed to remain on twitter and who got booted off.

We all know why no one would touch it too.

Really wish the article would have gone deeper into what has been happening with the invisibility cloaks and feminists.

StealthPolarBear · 28/06/2020 11:51

I remember the Charlotte Church stuff and like a pp I assumed that was when it stopped. Urgh.
On a side ote whatever happened to her?

LouHotel · 28/06/2020 12:09

So Kaia Gerber is Cindy Crawfords daughter and the mail started reporting on her around the age of 10 because she is clearly a doppelganger of her mother

2013 - age 11

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2316573/amp/Cindy-Crawfords-daughter-Kaia-Gerber-quite-little-performer-heads-home-play-appearance.html

2018 - age 15
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-4066588/amp/Cindy-Crawford-s-daughter-Kaia-Gerber-outshines-fashion-icon-mom-beachy-Christmas.html

It's always stuck out to me as if they were grooming her for public use.

ThePurported · 28/06/2020 12:11

It's terrifying how a massive world wide campaign to silence and erase women was quickly piggy backed on by child abusers.
And a lot of that campaign also targets children , safeguarding etc.

I doubt it's a coincidence

uncommongroundmedia.com/the-trojan-unicorn-queer-theory-and-paedophilia-part-i-%EF%BB%BF-dr-em/

The Trojan Unicorn: Queer Theory and Paedophilia, Part I. | Dr Em

"When I see the term ‘queer feminist’ or ‘queer feminism’ I suspect, maybe hope, that those using these descriptors have not done the reading. As the old proverb states ‘the road to hell is lined with good intentions’. I do not believe that all these young woke people, charities, institutions and arts festivals are supportive of rape and paedophilia, of ‘queering’ and transgressing boundaries feminists have worked tirelessly to establish. Age of consent and rape legislation was an important part of first wave feminism's agenda.
Nevertheless, this is what queer theory aims at. As Sarah Beresford has analysed, ‘The term “Queer”… is by definition whatever is at odds with the normal, the legitimate, and the dominant, and aims to destabilize dominant ideas of identity, whether that identity is sexual, gendered, ethnic, national, and political and so forth’. This sounds liberating and progressive until we remember that ‘the normal, the legitimate, and the dominant’ include the idea that adults should not sexually abuse children. Unnervingly, the reframing of child sexual abuse and liberating of paedophilia from the margins of society is a dominant idea within queer theory. Although it has attempted to cloak itself under the rainbow and harness the energy, good will and gains gay, lesbian and bisexual people have fought for over decades Queer theory is anything but progressive. Indeed, it is totally opposed to same sex attraction. As Professor Alassandra Tanesini outlines, a ‘characteristic trait of queer theory is its opposition to any view that treats sexual orientation as anything other than socially constructed’. Thus, same sex attraction becomes a preference which can be unlearnt or cast as bigoted for being exclusionary. This is homophobia in a shiny new case. Unlike transgender ideology which is underpinned by queer theory, queer theory has key proponents and a body of literature which we may interrogate. This series of essays will first look at the post-modern foundations before moving on to queer theory and paedophilia."

ThePankhurstConnection · 28/06/2020 12:26

@Soontobe60

Dr Christian and Adrian Harrop had a Twitter conversation about this. The basic jist was that in some countries sex with what we consider as minors was the norm, and not classed as Pedophelia and that we impose this abritary age on sex. I'll see if I can find it.
Yes I remember this - one can only assume they support the punishment of gay people when it is cultural too? If they don't apply that argument to that then they an't apply it to the abuse of young women either.
Ginkypig · 28/06/2020 12:32

In a sense, the line is always going to be arbitrary. I always find it jarring reading US sources describing someone having sex with a 17-year-old as a paedophile, and the 17-year-old as a child. Here, it'd be completely legal. Arguably immoral if there's a large age gap or power imbalance, but that'd be equally true were the younger partner 19. Taking a hypothetical country where the age of consent is 15 instead of 16, that shouldn't mean that to a British person, that country promotes paedophilia. It's just a slightly different dividing line

And yet the same country (USA) has legal child marriage in certain states which sex offenders use to marry the victim before they can be convicted of underage sex offences! It has destroyed the lives of young people.
Il just go and see if I can find a link.

Ginkypig · 28/06/2020 12:43

www.cbsnews.com/news/child-marriage-in-us-cbsn-originals/

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p072qyrb

Just a couple of links but there are much better sources out there I assume.

Sorry I'm not trying to change the direction of the thread. Other countries or cultures have nothing to do with how we as a society decide to view and govern the age of consent, there are plenty of examples from all over the world of different rules most of what I have come across is hugely damaging to the child involved if what the anecdotal evidence of some of these (mostly) women say as adults.

The worst thing for me about this thread is it's not even shocking for me. I should be absolutely aghast at this but instead I'm just feeling the familiar disappointment.