Still I Rise tattoo - inappropriate for a white woman?

[teawamutu]

Probably stupid middle class navel gazing, but...

Maya Angelou's poem is the most inspiring piece of writing in the world to me. Beautiful and uplifting and universal.

I've been toying for ages with getting a line from the poem as a tattoo, but concerned it would be cultural appropriation. I know MA was a self-declared feminist but that's not the primary focus of the poem.

Would you? And MNers who are POC, would you find it disrespectful?

Actually I agree that isn't fair so sorry, I apologise.

god forbid somebody white is inspired by and moved by something a black person wrote?

I thought this thread was a good example of the sort of nuanced discussion we need to have on these issues. I hope it doesn't descend into cries of 'cultural appropriation' vs 'purity politics'. All heat and no light.

@NoAdventureNoTime

Actually I agree that isn't fair so sorry, I apologise.

No worries, can see why it looked that way.

Thank you.

@NearlyGranny

What about "Courage calls to courage everywhere." instead? You need fear failing no purity test with that. Millicent Fawcett said it after the death of Emily Davison.

That's PERFECT! Now to get brave enough to actually have the tattoo

I also think the idea of donating money to ease your white guilt in appropriating a culture not your own is quite telling

What a load of nonsense. And not befitting the more nuanced and thoughtful discussions we have come to expect on this board.
All you are doing with this nonsense is reinforcing and nourishing racism and nurturing grievance.

I apologised for this. It was a thought that came out when I read incorrectly that someone suggested donating money and getting the tattoo anyway as way of making peace.

The poster has apologised for that just upthread.

I think it's an interesting discussion. I've been trying to nail down why it jars with me and I would draw a parallel with a man tweeting '#Metoo' at the height of that movement instead of, e.g. 'Listen to women'. The intention may be good but I think you can listen and support and draw inspiration without using words like 'Me' and 'I' which I think place yourself at the centre of the struggle when you're not.

god forbid somebody white is inspired by and moved by something a black person wrote?

I've never heard of it. I've read it now and don't particularly like it- the rhyming is a bit clunky. It's very clearly however dealing with a black woman's experience.

One can be inspired by the poem but that's very different from then turning it into a "me, me,me" experience on a tattoo.

The intention may be good but I think you can listen and support and draw inspiration without using words like 'Me' and 'I' which I think place yourself at the centre of the struggle when you're not

If there is an issue related to society and how it operates are we not all at the centre of it? Or must it always the struggle of one group against another?

I'm white and I have still I ride with a flowers around it as a tattoo
Literally never occurred to me it's only a poem that black women could relate to

Still I rise

@NoAdventureNoTime

I also think the idea of donating money to ease your white guilt in appropriating a culture not your own is quite telling.

That was my suggestion and it’s not my potential tattoo, so please don’t accuse the OP of white guilt due to my comment.

The suggestion I made was based on the advice given by black members of a historical music community I participate in, there, both acknowledging the roots of the music and ensuring that the descendants of those who originated it (and those who are making that music today) are fairly compensated (in a way that their ancestors were not) is encouraged.

If they are leveraging my ‘white guilt’ over my love of 30s Jazz music, well, at least young black musicians are benefitting, eh?

I am a white woman who has a passion for Black Spiritual music. I got into it very young before I understood the entire weight behind it when I just thought it was amazing music. Whilst I listen to it and can take inspiration as a general 'struggle against adversity' I have never listened to it and thought yes this really speaks to me as a young white girl going through the difficulties of growing up in Southern England. As I got older I listened to it with knowledge of the context of where it came from and believe it's that (apart from the fact its just amazing music) that makes it so incredible and have such a huge impact. I feel like an outsider listening in to something beautiful when I hear it.
No one I know knows about this interest I have. I have old vinyl recordings and some of them use er, 'old fashioned' words to describe black people and culture. It makes me very conflicted and I question it regularly. If I acknowledge myself as an outsider, do I still have the right to listen? Am I getting something positive out of pain that was never mine?
There are many phrases that speak to me, as 'Still I rise' speaks to you. At really dark times of my life 'sometimes I feel like a motherless child' has meant more to me than I can explain even though I know it's not for me or about me.
I would never use the words or phrases in relation to me though, further than a private connection. I would never get a tattoo or speak them or write them that in some way related to me. My reference to motherless child is the first time I have spoken about what that means to me.
I think whilst the phrase can have meaning for you and you are free to take what you want from it personally, it was not written for you. The idea of it being on white skin sits uncomfortably with me, it's so specifically about black skin and what that means. Especially as it has the word 'I' in it.
I absolutely don't pretend to know to have any answers to this, like I said I am regularly conflicted and questioning of my own relationship with a part of black culture.
My instinct in this is the poem and the phrase is just so specific, it's for people with black skin. Although you are free to draw inspiration from her dignity and courage in general and take that with you through your life, as a white woman I think a tattoo would be inappropriate.

@Floisme

The poster has apologised for that just upthread.

I think it's an interesting discussion. I've been trying to nail down why it jars with me and I would draw a parallel with a man tweeting '#Metoo' at the height of that movement instead of, e.g. 'Listen to women'. The intention may be good but I think you can listen and support and draw inspiration without using words like 'Me' and 'I' which I think place yourself at the centre of the struggle when you're not.

That’s a really interesting point re: ‘I’ ‘me’.

It is, isn't it - articulates brilliantly why I felt uneasy without being quite able to say why.

Just in the interest of interesting discussion and learning from each other, would ‘Still, she rose’ pay tribute to Angelou in a more fitting manner or would altering Angelou’s exact text be even more problematic?

I agree with Floisme about the "I me" point.

Not exactly the point of the thread, but I can't imagine anyone noticing the wording on other people's bodies and caring enough to 'call them out'. I strongly suspect you could have 'free shags' followed by your phone number tastefully tattooed with a nice flower anywhere on your body and nobody would comment. Maybe your mum.

That's the problem with 'cultural appropriation' or 'cultural copyright' as I prefer to refer to it. It is too easy to go down an extreme route using the very same arguments that those promoting the concept themselves use.

In effect is the output from human beings subject to an embargo enforced across cultural and racial lines? That the gift of creativity, invention, innovation, insight and genius may only be employed, read, disseminated, understood, empathised-with, employed, referenced, discussed, critiqued, appreciated-by and reproduced only by the culture the original creator is identified as belonging-to?

Because that is what is being demanded by those who advocate for cultural copyright; that our the contributions to human worth, to human art, science and thought be boxed-in within the bounds of a cultural gatekeeping system.

There have been previous human societies that have tried to introduce cultural copywriting before. The most recent one of course was Germany from the late 1920's to 1945 where the concept of Aryanism introduced an ideology of racial supremacy which determined what language, literature, art, music, food and clothing were culturally copyright of a particular race.

Perhaps that is the route being pursued at present, but in a more subtle manner.

@MorrisZapp

Not exactly the point of the thread, but I can't imagine anyone noticing the wording on other people's bodies and caring enough to 'call them out'. I strongly suspect you could have 'free shags' followed by your phone number tastefully tattooed with a nice flower anywhere on your body and nobody would comment. Maybe your mum.

There is a purity spiral taking place within the young British tattooer and tattoo fan instagram ‘community’ currently, so whether your point is true or not very much depends on the circles you run in!

Very true, I do hope the OP doesn't hang out with the purity posse though.

are we not all at the centre of it? Or must it always the struggle of one group against another?
No I don't think we are all at the centre of a black woman's struggle. I would very much hope that we can support and inspire each other, but it wouldn't feel right for me to imply that it's my struggle. Ultimately I can never know how it feels to be a black woman, any more than a man, however decent, can ever know how it feels to be female. That doesn't mean a man cannot support or even join women in the struggle and I appreciate it when they do. But it's still not their movement and I think the same applies here.

Get the tattoo if it moves you. The question about cultural appropriation is a flawed one. Questions of race boil down to are you for integration or are you for segregation?

The entire concept of cultural appropriation is deeply segregationist. This isn’t ameliorated by the fact some people of African descent hold this view it promotes segregation.

In the end someone might (of any racial background) see your tat, think it sounds nice and inquire as to it’s source. This may lead to a however small increase in the appreciation of the works of a great writer.

Conversely yes it might offend a black person, but the forces of segregation must be confronted no matter the racial background of the person holding the view. Note that doesn’t mean you have to be a dick about it. Were I in your position I’d be sensitive, but I’d stick to my values. Although I might be willing to cover it up in their presence if it became a huge sticking point, and I really liked the person.

I saw a video on fb today about what British people can do to support BLM. One of the four practical recommendations was to pay black artists for their work. So writers, musicians, film makers, performers etc. It's a very fair demand. But it doesn't sit well alongside the cultural appropriation trope for me. Buy the book, read it, recommend it to your loved ones. But don't write it's title on your arm. That book isn't for you.