Times article on pay gap

[Al1Langdownthecleghole]

No surprises about who comes off worst.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d86b2394-b7e7-11ea-84a6-a03a9956ea0a?shareToken=c1d307e0366c6f474d970f90f32d6849

Times having a good morning.

Thank you for posting this with a share token.

This is what I keep saying to my teen. Women still have not yet achieved equality, and sadly she will need to continue to fight this still. I had hoped that by now it would be a non-issue and sex discrimination was a rare thing by 2020.

Sadly, with the conflation of sex and gender, this will get harder without clarity.

Glad you've started this - I just read this article and came looking for a thread.

It's a fascinating read. There are two main points, one which comes as no surprise (the existence of a pay gap) but the second, which is more revealing, is that the pay gap is perpetuated by the very people who think "there is no pay gap."

For those who don't want to read the whole article, the researchers submitted identical CVs (indicating high competence to do the job), one with a male name and one with a female name, to veterinary practices, and asked them what sort of starting salary such a person should get. On average the male name garnered suggested offers 8% above those for the female name.

But the interesting bit was when they asked the practice managers what they thought about the pay gap.

"Those most responsible for the gap believed that gender bias no longer existed in their profession. Those who believed bias still existed recommended roughly equal pay."

I know we often say on here "if you can't see sex, you can't see sexism", but this rather suggests a neat reversal - "those who can't see sexism still see sex, and still perpetrate sexism."

In addition to the above, there may be an element of 'self-licensing'

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing

I'm sure once more trans women are accepted in society the gender pay gap will even itself out.

[quote ErrolTheDragon]In addition to the above, there may be an element of 'self-licensing'

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing[/quote]
That's a very good point, Errol.

I would hazard a guess that the managers who jumped for the differential pay probably split between those who are "self-licencing" and those who are just closet misogynists. Not sure what the proportions would be though.

The self-licencing types probably like to think of themselves as egalitarian, do a little bit of virtue signalling ("Look, I've retweeted a 'Women in STEM' post on our practice's twitter feed"), pat themselves on the back, then get on with being sexist. The closet misogynists are those who are a bit "PC gorn mad, we've had the equal pay act on the books for nearly 50 years, of course there's no pay gap..." types.

the pay gap is perpetuated by the very people who think "there is no pay gap."

I think this is very true. I work with younger women who think they have equality, yet I see that they don't. It's not just the pay gap either it's the wifework tasks; organising collections, social events and making drinks are all more likely to be done, most often by women.

Thanks for posting this, OP. Interesting article, particularly the bit about the very people who think "there is no pay gap".

I'd be interested to see whether parents' views on this change before/after parenthood.

I work with younger women who think they have equality, yet I see that they don't

My female students assume they have equality [equality with what? I always want to ask]. I ask them to come back in ten years, when the man alongside them who started work with them, is paid more, or they're made redundant on maternity leave, or they're not promoted as quickly as the men they started with.

I work in the veterinary industry and although female dominated, particularly once you have children, women are often overlooked for partnership/senior positions.

@CatandtheFiddle

I work with younger women who think they have equality, yet I see that they don't

My female students assume they have equality [equality with what? I always want to ask]. I ask them to come back in ten years, when the man alongside them who started work with them, is paid more, or they're made redundant on maternity leave, or they're not promoted as quickly as the men they started with.

Not all women want children. More so a trend amongst the younger generation so no chance for maternity "gap".

The trouble is though, women may say they don’t want to have children but in many places management have already assumed they will

I know of a few senior partners who will only employ childbearing age women if there’s no male candidate

Those most responsible for the gap believed that gender bias no longer existed in their profession. Those who believed bias still existed recommended roughly equal pay.

Reminds me of a certain simpleton saying 'I am the least racist person there is anywhere in the world'

And women are still paid less, whether or not they have children.

So those who don't have children - or worse, might want children, but can't have them (for many reasons, not just infertility) cop a double-whammy.