how to raise boys that are happy, well adjusted and supportive to women and / or families and partners

[magicmallow]

Hi all, not sure if the right place to post this.

I've had real difficulties with many of the men in my life, my dad, my ex, a lot of my friends seem to be the type that deny women are oppressed, happy to leave the women to raise the kids, not work, lazy, smoke pot, borderline abusive or not seem to be bothered or to be a useful part of society, emotionally stunted etc.

I don't want to tar all men with the same brush by any means and I know there are good guys out there, but as it seems common in my life for men to behave this way it's gotten me thinking how did they get this way and what can I do to ensure my son (I'm a LP) does not turn out the same way? how is society failing these young men so badly they end up deadbeat or even in complete denial that there is anything wrong with their behaviour and lack of responsibility?

I have a young son and am trying so hard to raise him with empathy and awareness. It's obviously hard when his dad isn't setting a great example (I do my best to minimise this).

The last thing I want is for him to end up as a depressed head in the sand drug / alcohol abuser / pot head type (I myself have been through struggles in younger years but firmly out the other side now).

Does anyone have any advice, thoughts etc? Thanks. Sorry if anything in my post seems inflammatory or ill considered. I don't mean it to be. I just wonder why so many men end up this way and what I can do about it with my son.

This is exactly the right place! I suggest you love him outrageously (I'm sure you do) make sure he knows your love is unconditional (I taught mine to answer the question "What do you need to do to make sure I keep loving you?" with "Just keep breathing.") and model thoughtfulness in small and large ways.

Encourage him to join in helping with household chores, looking after his own belongings and sitting down with you when all the work is done. Never wait on him hand and foot or hold him to your own adult standards in bedmaking etc or he may lose heart.

Make sure he has story time with you and read him a range of books with different protagonists as well as people like himself so he learns to empathise. Make sure he knows that your debit card or the ATM are not magic money trees but represent money you have earned and put in there before it can come out again, and that is is not limitless. Help him understand how you budget and where the money goes in ways appropriate to his age.

When you're out and about, talk to him about the people you see and what they are doing, whether they need consideration like an older person or a mum with a buggy struggling with a door or a homeless person he can ask whether they'd like a sandwich or a hot drink and take it to them with a friendly word.

Make sure he understands that girls and women are people too, and challenge and discuss any disparaging or disrespectful talk he comes home with from school or his DF's place and encourage him to speak up if he hears it among his friends. Try to protect him from the toxic scourge of violent pornography. I did not have to negotiate this back in the day and it makes me shudder.

My boy, as a teen after an upbringing like this, would leap to help a woman manage a buggy on the stairs and once stepped in to wipe the windscreen of the car next to ours in a rainy station carpark, taking the cloth from the old lady's hands and telling her to climb back into the dry while he did the job for her. As a man, he is a caring loving partner providing for and loving his stepchild and a besotted hands-on father to his own newborn.

You are your DS's main influence and you can shape him to break the bad bits of the cycle and grow the good. It's a long job but so worthwhile.

I would recommend drama groups for creativity, confidence and non-macho, inspirational male role models. Beavers, Cubs and Scouts are also worthwhile but local groups can vary in ethos.

Following with great interest. My DS will be an only child and he is 2. I want to get this right.

Following - mine is 14 and we are hitting so major problems. Trying to turn it around!

NearlyGranny, what lovely and amazing advice!

@NearlyGranny it sounds as if you have done a wonderful job. If my son turns out like yours I will be very proud

This has reminded me...I may have missed it but where is Steve Biddulph (Raising Boys, Raising Girls, The Secret to Happy Children, Manhood) these days?
I haven't heard of him for years.
Along with a lot of the other eminently sensible (or so I thought at the time, happy to be disproved) child psychologists that were around when my children were small.
Oliver James is another.

I'm just surprised we aren't hearing from some of these people about the rights or wrongs of things like puberty blockers for instance.

I wish I knew. Two boys, brothers, now in their fifties. One is a racist, misogynistic, homophobic, jerk, while the other is that rare creature a good man.
Why?

Social media is responsible for so much toxicity towards women. I would steer him away from it for as long as you possibly can.

I strongly believe that a love of reading encourages empathy - read to him as much as you can and give him plenty of space from devices to foster the habit for himself. Go for some books with strong female characters!

Make sure he is involved in chores around the house and do plenty of cooking with him. By the time he is a teen he should be able to take responsibility for hoovering, washing up,changing his bed etc. Don't let him get away with doing it badly!

We have had bad experiences with single sex schools for both dd and ds - if you get a choice, opt for mixed sex education. Boys schools in particular are the worse (my ds's personal experience - others may disagree).

perhaps it depends on your background, most the men in my family are respectful to women and so the boys in the family are growing up to be respectful young men.

I think you teach them about respect, reaching for ones goals, working hard, believe in themselves, give stability, teach them to love and be loved.

Following as my 15 year old is showing all the traits of being lazy and hapless.
@NearlyGranny you make a lot of interesting points. I just hope it’s not too late to try them with DS. One of the main issues is he’s lazy and doesn’t see what might need doing and it was interesting where you said not to hold him up to adult standards and I think that might be where I’ve gone wrong because I do expect a lot from him and I think somewhere in my determination for him not to be a useless bloke I’ve ended up discouraging him.

Most men I know are very respectful to women. I like to think my son is a good man. Certainly his girlfriend seems to think so. He cooks, cleans, pays above his way, is kind and thoughtful so not sure what’s not to like.
Ours weren’t allowed to be lazy (boy or girl). There were high expectations and quite strict rules but they knew they were loved unconditionally. They knew we always acted in their best interests and always will. We allowed some risk taking and fun so they got their sense of adventure and testosterone activities as well as the more cultural stuff. We kept family as the core unit and didn’t allow ‘hanging around’. When school work slipped below a target of 4A*s, we booked him into revision crammers. He is pleased we did now.

He was taught right from wrong at a very young age, had a structure that provided a strong moral compass and was held accountable for wrongdoing.
Same as the girls really.

You sound like a brilliant mum NearlyGranny.
Ive read Steve Biddulph raising boys and it makes sense, my son is 10 so hes craving his dad and other male role models.
His dad is not a bad guy, hes a good enough dad but i think i need to find other good role models also, my brothers are both pretty useless unfortunately.
Ita hard as a single mother, ive been single since my son was a baby so i hope that helps him see there are not women and mens jobs, I did everything and ds helps in age appropriate ways.
We've had the money/cashpoint talk. He knows i work hard for what we have, he knows what i do for work.
I don't need to worry about porn yet but i know it will come up in the not too distant future. Dreading that to be honest.
So far I think its going pretty well hes a lovely boy who will help out, hold gates open, uses his manners and is very easy to get along with. Things may change over the next 10 years but I hope not.
I talk to him and he knows he can to talk to me so I think that helps.

This is an ongoing question for me! At the moment it's going ok, but dreading the teenage years...

Some great advice and I second reading and chores. I always make sure my dc know that our household is a team and we pull together to make sure we have a clean and comfortable home.
I’d also add to go out a lot. I make sure we go for a walk in nature most days. There’s a lot of research that shows that being in mature brings many benefits. I know it makes my dc calm and more pleasant.
Documentaries also play a part. Having an interest and a passion for the world we live in also nurtures good morals and standards.

Now that mine are getting older, I also watch films with them that are educational about things that matter as well as entertaining. It might be about war or disability or race or anything that’s significant.
Again, it promotes empathy and broad mindedness.

Later thoughts: buy books - lots of books - and model reading for pleasure. Read Steve Biddulph yourself and find the authors DS responds to. Talk to him about what he's reading and what you're reading. Give him large doses of out-of-doors whenever you can and trees to climb. Get far enough out so you need to read a map with him.

Find his fascinations and feed them. Feed his ambitions, too.

I think my DS benefitted from having two sisters but that might be one thing you can't organise! He did have lots of female company, and his sisters - and their friends, too - would confide in him for relationship advice!

If not sisters, encourage his friendships with girls from an early age.

I’m a SAHM to DSS (16) and DS (6), and feel like I have a responsibility to make sure they understand that this is a life choice I have made, that works for our family at the moment, and not something they should automatically expect in a future partner. I iron DH’s shirts because I enjoy it, not because he is incapable.

Both boys do various age appropriate things around the house, and as he’s got older I’ve taught DSS things like how to use the washing mashing, how to clean properly, cooking and how to budget. He’s now very proficient at all of them - although he enjoys cooking much more than cleaning the toilet! 🤣

I think just having general conversations about stuff is helpful too - I used to find car journeys really good for having meandering chats, especially in those awkward early teenage years, because you’re not sat looking directly at each other.

My three late teenage boys are fine - they help and are pleasant. The 15 year old is ironing just now. It’s my lazy, entitled, rude 20 year old daughter that’s the problem.

All brought up the same way.

I pity her future husband - and I blame social media for influencing her to be so egocentric.

There's only so much you can do I think, ultimately they will grow into independent thinking individuals who are heavily influenced by the society they live in. Teach them to be sceptical of this and of the messages they receive, critical thinking skills that kind of thing.

Hold on tight in the teen years as it can get hairy. DS and friends once climbed a medieval church spire late at night via the scaffolding that was covering it at the time. I do look back sometimes and marvel that he survived to adulthood. He was always the one who struck out and swam at right angles to the shore, never along. 🤦🏼‍♀️

We need to teach our sons that their physical strength is there so they can protect and defend the smaller and weaker, not so they can dominate, threaten, control or hurt.

My 14 year old is in Scouts, he started at 6. Though he goes to a single sex secondary school now, he seems to be able to talk to and work together with girls just as well as he does with boys. I think Scouts is good because you don't get the same divide between the girls and boys like you do in school.

I have 2, mid and late teens.

I am also a SP, df is around but it’s limited how much he sees them.

I have worked hard to work out how to bring them up to be good men and agree with what pp have said.

I think exploring masculinity with them is really important. Showing them what a good man is like, and by that I mean, it’s not the same as a good woman. Especially when it comes to marriage. Equal but different.

They’ve found male role models that they respect and look up to. We talk about what it is that appeals to them about these men. I have had to step back somewhat and accept that some of these men are quite ‘masculine’ so they have an element of excitement about them, and that’s what appeals to them. These role models are not bad men, but I know if I mention their names and they would be possibly not what you’d hear from a feminist, but we’ve really explored the spectrum of masculinity and why they are really helpful role models.

Joe Rogan is one. He’s masculine. He loves sport, risky comedy, swears, smokes weed, but what he also is is honest, open, curious, non judgemental, never aggressive, disciplined, ambitious, full of integrity.

Jordan Peterson is another. My eldest son has taken so much from him about how he ‘needs’ to live his life. And he said recently to me that he’s had the biggest influence on how he wants to be, and to quote his takeaway from him “you need to take on as much responsibility as you can bear”

I know a lot of people on here don’t like Jordan Peterson, and that’s another debate, but for young men there is no doubt he gives them a purpose and a view of ‘what good looks like’

Hi all, I just wanted to say how thankful I am for all the lovely advice, some great words of wisdom here I will definitely take on board. I will revisit each month to remind me. Thank you everyone!