Feminist Perspective on the Rocky Horror Show?

[YinuCeatleAyru]

up till my early 40s I was under the impression that feminism had won, sexism was a thing of the past and the feminist movement was now an interesting part of history rather than anything to get involved with now. I don't think that any more.

In my student days I enjoyed attending a number of fancy-dress screenings of the Rocky Horror Picture Show and saw the show live one time (with Jason Donovan as Frank) but didn't think about it at the time from a feminist viewpoint.

I am thinking about it now a bit because a choir I am in is doing some of the songs from the show.

the show is obviously lighthearted and views and attitudes portrayed by the characters are not necessarily views being endorsed or promoted by the show, as much as criticised.

has anyone else on here got any thoughts on the show from a feminist perspective? I'm not sure I have anything concrete to say yet but find it valuable to develop my thoughts in conversation with others, if anyone would be interested?

I first saw the stage show in 1981 when I was 15. I was in the National Youth Theatre and this was one of the shows we were taken to see as part of our theatre 'education.'

I loved it of course, and adored Richard O'Brien, but as a fairly naive 15 year old a lot of it went over my head.

I went to see the film version a number of times in later years and enjoyed all the high camp and audience participation. Some of it still went over my head.

It was groundbreaking at the time and pushed so many boundaries. Interestingly, Richard O'Brien apparently now speaks of himself as 'transgender', after suffering a breakdown in his 60's. But also says that he never wanted to have any form of surgery because it would make him simply 'an idea of a woman.'

@TreestumpsAndTrampolines

God yes, Tim Curry. Gorgeous and also very very very much a man. Just a man in make up and fancy underwear.

There's a character in a sci-fi show I watch like this - made up, sparkles, long flowing skirts, fabulous everything - but also so masculine you can feel it virtually oozing off the screen. It's such a different vibe to someone like say Travis Alabanza, or drag queens. Wanting to be a strong, fiercely beautiful man - not an imitation of anything or an apology for anything.

Which show please? Always looking for new ones.

Frank being a transvestite, probably AGP? Fine. Doesn't try to pretend he's anything else and opens up how men can be (although I wouldn't be impressed if I saw someone dressed like that on the street - male or female!)
Rape by deception of various characters? Not cool. In any way. But then it's never claimed Feank is nice.

These days I watch it with my brain shut off. It is wonderful entertainment but there is a lot wrong with it.

But then it's never claimed Feank is nice.

Good point. Also, don't Riff Raff and Magenta drag him off back to their planet / kill him off (aaaaages since I watched it, sorry) for, basically, too much fucking around with the humans? So his behaviour is kind of judged and dealt with even within the absurdity of the narrative?

Ooh interesting. I haven't got much to offer in terms of interpretation, but a few weeks back I came upon something on Twitter - TRAs bashing the film; saying it's transphobic and baaaad; Frank is a horrible person and not representative for the cause but how t*rfs think transgender people are.
I was really surprised by this as I'd not thought the trans community would hate this?!

Probably doesn't queer things up enough.

My favourite film and I've also seen it on stage several times, once with Jason Donovan. And yes I dressed up. It's terrific wearing a basque to the pub. The last time I saw it I went with a country solicitor who dressed as Magenta and looked fab. Still a bloke!

Just goes to show that you don't have to transition to wear clothes. When I was a teenager I used to love formal men's clothes from Oxfam, winged collars, shirt studs, cuff links, top hat and tails, spats, cravats, braces, pocket watches. I'd forgotten just how many men's clothes I wore all the time. I wore waistcoats for years, it was my signature. And pixie boots.

My DH finds Rocky very uncomfortable because of the blokes in makeup and fishnets but I still adore it.

It used to be an 18 when it first came out too. It's been reclassified, my current copy is a 15.

My "go to" fancy dress is Columbia from Rocky Horror.

My analysis has never gone that deep. I've always liked the message that you should just relax and be who you are. But don't go so far you murder and eat people 'cause that's bad.

Tim Curry - yes, another huge fan here! At university each year there was a Rocky Horror screening, we all dressed up as I recall. I didn’t think too much about it at the time - I think both Janet and Brad were taken advantage of equally.

The message I take from Rocky Horror is
be exactly who you want to be and do not judge others
its just a jump to the left

For that message “just be who you want to be” I think Kinky Boots is the much better show.

Tim Curry as Frank was bloody gorgeous. I'm always too distracted by that to submit it to a feminist analysis

what she said no one has ever worn stockings like that man.

i love the character, one of the first queer characters i was aware of as a bisexual teenager. he’s a total arsehole, he’s fragile, he’s beautiful, he’s handsome, he’s sexy, he’s prissy, he’s just a fizzing joyous celebration of human weirdness with no attempt at pigeonholing.

I remember a couple of years ago Richard O'Brien said TW are not W and got a bit of a backlash, though probably not what he would get saying that today.

The rape stuff is a send up though, I mean that's the point, that it's completely unrealistic and bizarre, - which fits in with everything else completely over the top in the story. The point being, it's actually not normal behaviour.

I don't understand the idea that it's supposed to be sending some kind of message that the film is depicting some positive approach to seduction.

It’s about sex as freedom and casting off inhibitions for Brad and Janet as they are so boring (in Frank’s eyes) they wouldn’t have sex until their wedding night. So yeah, the whole Frank pretending to be them in turn is a bit troubling, but the lack of judginess about how everyone looks and behaves is refreshing.
It’s one big orgy orchestrated by aliens, so you could say they are taking their cues from how humans behave to trick people into sex. Reflecting society, not influencing it.
Jason Donovan was a great Frank but Carlos The Anaesthetist From Holby was amazing. Nothing tops Tim, though.

I've always liked the message that you should just relax and be who you are. But don't go so far you murder and eat people 'cause that's bad.

I thought it was written as a spoof of the many horror films from the 50s and 60s that R O'B grew up with? No analysis needed.

Don't let the TRAs call Frank Truscum and steal the show!

I wish I had the body to dress up as Magenta.

I saw the stage version where Dani Harmer played Janet, Tracy Beaker all grown up really upset me!

Tim Curry as Frank was bloody gorgeous. I'm always too distracted by that to submit it to a feminist analysis grin

yep.

and

But then it's never claimed Feank is nice

Good point. Also, don't Riff Raff and Magenta drag him off back to their planet / kill him off (aaaaages since I watched it, sorry) for, basically, too much fucking around with the humans? So his behaviour is kind of judged and dealt with even within the absurdity of the narrative?

I never saw Frank any thing other than a self oppressed self centred character, and that was how it was meant to be.

two extremes come together. Frank and super straight laced Brad and Janet.

with the over all massage being

you should just relax and be who you are. But don't go so far you murder and eat people 'cause that's bad

Some interesting thoughts, yes. Thank you all.

Yes the rapey aspects is something that's got me more uncomfortable thinking about it recently whereas it just seemed "normal plot feature" when encountered previously. Also the idea of Rocky being made as a sentient sex toy. But yes the liberation of everyone being able to wear as much spangly sequins as they like regardless of their sex is good. Something that troubles me is the lyric "I want to be dirty" which seems to align with sex being something shameful - but thinking on it, I suspect that actually the lyric was chosen more for the rhyme than for the value judgement.

I don't get the appeal of Tim Curry, but it seems to be a consensus view.

you should just relax and be who you are. But don't go so far you murder and eat people 'cause that's bad - this is a good moral for the story. But also yes that it shouldn't be taken too seriously.

@TreestumpsAndTrampolines the SciFi show you mention is intriguing - please let us know more.

Who was it said If sex isn't dirty you're not doing it right...

Lady Gaga said if it’s not rough it isn’t fun.

@Saucery

Lady Gaga said if it’s not rough it isn’t fun.

Yikes!

Tim Curry as Frank was bloody gorgeous. I'm always too distracted by that to submit it to a feminist analysis

Hell yes..

But
I always thought that Frank the character is meant to be one of those off the scale baddies, that you can’t help but cheer for on during the movie, like Darth Vader or Dracula. Just for the sheer entertainment value of their evil.

Frank is a shallow sex obsessed , murdering, raping, caniablistic vivisectionist. There’s objectively NOTHING likeable about him. And along with the two aforementioned he’s one of my favourite fictional characters.

I can’t give it much of a feminist analysis, but I am interested in our (collective) love of fictional baddies. Guess there’s a ton of pscychoanalysis about why so many of us love a good movie villain, something about their evil metaphorically portraying our repressed desires (I’ve read a few essays about the Victorian obsession with vampires being representative of repressed sexually)

Rocky horror manages to be simultaneously ground breaking and yet of its time. Many of the female roles are quite weak on the face of it. Male sexual desire and male gaze at the heart of it. I don’t think in the current climate anyone could write anything near as good. Wokesville would kill it.

@terryleather

Who was it said If sex isn't dirty you're not doing it right...

Unfortunately, it was woody Allen