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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

An apology to JKR

25 replies

Broomfondle · 24/06/2020 14:36

areomagazine.com/2020/06/23/an-apology-to-jk-rowling/

Just saw this and thought I'd share

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 24/06/2020 14:48

Argh! I'm on the app, can't work the link?

Any hint and I'll go find it myself Smile

Michelleoftheresistance · 24/06/2020 14:53

The Balkanisation of culture into silos of unreason means that the responses have not followed what might be loosely called the pre-digital rules of discourse. These rules assume that the purpose of public debate is to discern truth and that interlocutors on opposing sides—a reductionist bifurcation, because, in fact, there are many sides—engage in argument because they are interested in something higher than themselves: an ideal of truth, no matter how complicated, multifaceted and evolving. While in-group preferences and biases are inevitable, these exist within an overarching deliberative framework. This style of dialogue assumes the validity of a persuasive argument grounded in reason and evidence, even if—as Rowling does—it also utilises experience and feeling. By default, it assumes that civil conflict and opposition are essential devices in the pursuit of truth.

Three decades of postmodernism and ten years of Twitter have destroyed these conventions and, together with them, the shared norms by which we create and sustain social consensus. There is no grounding metanarrative, there are no binding norms of civil discourse

Brilliantly expressed. It puts into words why thread after thread involves GC women trying to use rational, persuasive argument grounded in reason and evidence - and meet nothing but 'you won't allow other opinions', mantras, abuse and other nonsense to no good purpose.

Astella22 · 24/06/2020 14:54

Fantastic piece

Beerincomechampagnetastes · 24/06/2020 14:55

But remember this, JK—however counterintuitive this may seem to progressives, whose natural home is on the fringe—most people are looking on incredulously at the disconnect between culture and reality. Despite raucous protestations to the contrary, you are on the right side of history—not just because of the points you make, but because of how you make them

CuriousaboutSamphire · 24/06/2020 14:56

Woah! That's quite the ticket!!?

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 24/06/2020 14:59

That is a brilliant article- thank you for sharing it.

OrlandoInTheWilderness · 24/06/2020 15:01

Oh it is such a relief to read a well written, articulate piece!

prolefeed · 24/06/2020 15:06

That’s a nice cool drink on a hot day. And she even squeezed in ‘transmogrified’, which I haven’t heard for years and will be re-adding to my lexicon. What a sensible woman. I hope JKR sees this.

OliveKitteridgeAgain · 24/06/2020 15:07

That was excellent, thank you, OP

Ginnyhip46 · 24/06/2020 15:10

Ohhh fantastic

Broomfondle · 24/06/2020 15:16

Oh glad you like it! It's the first time I've started a thread on Mumsnet.

I was particularly heartened by this bit:

If questioning this orthodoxy is tantamount to abuse, then feminists and other dissenters have been gaslit out of the discussion before they can even enter it. This is especially pernicious because feminists in the west have been fighting patriarchy for several hundred years and we do not intend our cause to be derailed at the eleventh hour by an infinitesimal number of natal males, who have decided that they are women

OP posts:
IamEarthymama · 24/06/2020 15:31

Thank you so much for sharing this
It’s so beautifully written.

FreddoFrogAddict · 24/06/2020 15:35

Great article. I hope JK reads it. Thanks for sharing, have now liked Areo on FB.

Susanna85 · 24/06/2020 15:35

Thanks for sharing. I haven't read the whole piece yet, but will do tonight.

bishopgiggles · 24/06/2020 15:44

Calling it an "apology" is a bit of clickbait imo - implies some change of view.

Teapot200000 · 24/06/2020 15:49

Trans women are women is not an engaged reply. It is a mere arrangement of words, which presupposes a faith that cannot be questioned. To question it, we are told, causes harm—an assertion that transforms discussion into a thought crime. If questioning this orthodoxy is tantamount to abuse...

This actually makes me think of the way radical Islamists seek to punish anyone they consider to have disrespected Islam.

prolefeed · 24/06/2020 15:50

‘Clickbait’ is an interesting term to use when the article focuses on cultural change in debate in the post-print digital era. It may well draw in more frothers who are seeking someone else to cancel... is that a bad thing when the article itself describes exactly that? In this case, if ‘clickbait’ is an accurate descriptor, then I don’t think it’s pejorative. Grin

PurpleHoodie · 24/06/2020 16:44

Simply going on the snippets posted here; it's a well written piece.

Something I learned from ye' mumsnetters of old.
Post for the lurkers, not just for 'debate'.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 24/06/2020 16:50

Has this been tweeted to JKR?

Al1Langdownthecleghole · 24/06/2020 17:32

Rowling outlines why the biological and legal category of sex is important: in sports, in rape crisis shelters, in prisons, in toilets and changing rooms, for lesbians who want to sleep with natal women only and at the level of reality in general.

There you go at the level of reality.

stillathing · 24/06/2020 18:04

Calling it an "apology" is a bit of clickbait imo - implies some change of view.

JKR disclosed trauma and abuse and most people who responded to her completely disregarded that because she shares different ideological beliefs to them. She wasn't deemed worthy enough for anybody to care about what had happened to her.

A quick skim of the relationship board will show lots of empathic responses I'm so sorry that happened or that sounds terrifying or it wasn't your fault. The author of this piece is offering an empathic apology to JKR, as the real apology (from those on the left and those that value free speech) doesn't seem to be anywhere to be seen.

This is a really good article. I like how it describes the way those on the right, whilst agreeing with a few aspects of gender critical feminist arguments, also take great pleasure in seeing the left consume itself with ideological purges.

JellySlice · 24/06/2020 19:57

One of the comments makes a hugely important point:

We are all responsible for maintaining democracy, which requires reasoned and civil debate.

Jeanhatchet · 24/06/2020 20:11

Thanks for sharing

LockdownLump · 24/06/2020 20:53

♥️

bishopgiggles · 24/06/2020 22:10

@prolefeed

‘Clickbait’ is an interesting term to use when the article focuses on cultural change in debate in the post-print digital era. It may well draw in more frothers who are seeking someone else to cancel... is that a bad thing when the article itself describes exactly that? In this case, if ‘clickbait’ is an accurate descriptor, then I don’t think it’s pejorative. Grin
Good point It is a good piece.
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