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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Protected characteristics

48 replies

12boo · 23/06/2020 07:53

Is it true that sex is a legally protected characteristic? That in law being female is one of the criteria that we are not supposed to be discriminatory against on the basis of? And if so why isn't sex considered protected in hate speech? Is there a campaign (I want one) to insist that it's illegal to be abusive on the grounds of sex?
Help

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Jintyfer · 23/06/2020 07:55

Still waiting on them making misogyny against the law 🥱😴⏳ That would go some way towards making US equal with trans identified people. 🤷‍♀️

grafittiartist · 23/06/2020 07:57

Sex is indeed a protected characteristic. 2010 equality act.
People keep getting squeamish over the word, and say gender instead, which of course isn't the same thing.

Why we can't claim it as hate speech I don't know. Somethings that pass for being acceptable are outrageous, when it appears that using the word woman is hateful.

As usual- it's double standards for women.

ShiveringCoyote · 23/06/2020 07:57

I think it's not included because they know the sheer number of times women are harassed and abused just because they are women. Th ed y would need to double the police force to deal with it.

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong · 23/06/2020 08:11

From 2018:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/misogyny-misandry-hate-crime-police-cuts-austerity-sara-thornton-chief-constable-a8610116.html%3famp

No resources left for policing transgressions against boring old cunty-women.

12boo · 23/06/2020 08:38

Thank you
Can we campaign for better protective legislation?
It seems to be so dangerous for women and girls atm

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12boo · 23/06/2020 08:41

"All misogyny and misandry is an issue" odfod

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Shockedandbeffudled · 23/06/2020 09:01

I disagree about people being squeamish about the word. There is a sustained and insidious campaign to replace sex with gender and we need to speak out when we see the protected characteristics being misrepresented.

A lot of organisations have been duped!

Toseland · 23/06/2020 09:25

I keep seeing this phrase over and over, saying people are ‘too squeamish‘ to say the word ‘sex’. I guess if people say this enough perhaps others will believe it? It’s nonsense and another attack front.

sashh · 23/06/2020 09:33

I had a thread a few days ago, the DWP have removed 'sex' in a statement they attached to the bottom of a letter they sent me.

I complained and they tried to tell me I was wrong. Formal letter going to them this week asking for compensation for direct discrimination.

PurpleHoodie · 24/06/2020 01:54

sashh.

I remember your thread. Good on you. I hope you win a payout Flowers

LookAtTheCahhOlivahhhhh · 24/06/2020 02:19

I heard that the Fawcett Society are campaigning for this.

EmmaGrundyForPM · 24/06/2020 02:26

I work for an LA and our website has our E& D. policy on it. The 9 protected characteristics are listed except that instead of sex it says gender. I've raised the issue but the person I was directed to about it signs off her email with her name and then "chosen pronouns: she/her" so I'm not holding my breath!

TehBewilderness · 24/06/2020 03:24

They are in violation of law and may have been the victim of a fraud perpetrated by transgender advocacy groups who distributed fraudulent copies of the EA2010 replacing sex with gender identify.

sashh · 24/06/2020 06:44

EmmaGrundyForPM

I realise you will not want to be 'outed' but can you give any clues tot he website, if others complain it might go better.

My home is rented from a housing association, I approached them about the 'sex' and 'gender' and they did change it.

They provide some care services as well and I took the point of view that an elderly client might want to request a carer of the same sex and be upset if a transgender carer arrived and that it would also be distressing for the trans person trying to do their job.

As soon as you point out the replacing of 'sex' with 'gender' might distress a trans person then they, strangely, take notice.

ChattyLion · 24/06/2020 07:38

Great thread! This is an excellent timing to be campaigning for sex to get the same status as other protected characteristics because there is a government backed legal review happening that could include this. A chance to change the law, at least as far as is relevant to hate crimes and the protected characteristic of sex, is coming up.
In mid- 2020, (presumably delayed by Covid-19 pandemic, no sign of it yet?) the Law Commission will be consulting with us the public, on whether protected characteristics relevant to hate crime should also include sex.

The Law Commissioners will then make recommendations to the relevant government department for law reform. Depending on what their report says, Civil servants will then prepare draft legislation for parliament to vote on to change the law.

The LC are very influential with the government so it is key for all of us to make our voices heard to them, also copying in our own MPs so they that know their constituents’ views on this. Our MPs will ultimately be the deciders on whether any changes are made to the current law on hate crimes when new draft legislation will be offered to them by the relevant government department after the Law Commission has made their report. You can add your name to the Law Commission’s mailing list to be kept in touch of progress, like getting an email to be told when the consultation starts.

www.lawcom.gov.uk/project/hate-crime/

Responding to these public consultations is really effective. Most of the government ones only give three months for the public to respond at the most, and they can ask quite detailed questions so it’s worth keeping an eye on what’s coming up.

Hopefully women’s groups are already planning their responses on this, which they often share during consultation periods so that we can use their points as a guide which can be helpful, though submitting your response written in your own words is very important, that is considered more weightily than copy paste emailing a sample letter, or just putting your name to a petition.

So that’s absolutely brilliant if Fawcett are doing something in this area, although I had thought that currently they didn’t define woman by biological sex.. instead I thought Fawcett believed womanhood is defined by gender feelings. Hmm I would be very happy to be proved wrong on that though.
That would be great if they believe in biological sex again.

Some ‘women’s’ groups are more politically consistent in their support of women (ie reality-based) than others Grin so it will be interesting to see how Fawcett’s views come out on this issue.

However I don’t think it matters to much what they think. We may have to do all our own research thinking and legwork on developing consultation responses individually but FWR threads have been great at sharing thinking and debate in the past on other consultations and the substantive issues behind them.

The fact that supporting women’s rights - most especially if you’ve got the nerve to have been born an actual woman at the same time Hmm- seems to gather (baseless) accusations of ‘transphobia’ is a symptom of the highly misogynistic climate we are in. So these accusations and other sexist accusations and attempted diversions will continue whenever women try to campaign for their own rights, but these are self-serving ad hominems which avoid addressing or try to divert women away from the real point. Which is that women’s rights urgently need much greater legal protection.

FeminismandWomensFights · 24/06/2020 08:20

Toseland when you say I keep seeing this phrase over and over, that people are ‘too squeamish‘ to say the word ‘sex’. I guess if people say this enough perhaps others will believe it? It’s nonsense and another attack front

I totally agree that it’s wrong to be squeamish about using the word ‘sex’ when referring to biological sex. But I disagree if you were saying that it’s nonsense that this squeamishness already happens very widely in the UK though (is that what you meant?).

On numerous occasions I see and hear people using the word ‘gender’ when they clearly mean biological sex. They seem to feel it’s ‘more polite’ or more formal and that ‘sex’ is ‘rude’. So the word ‘Gender’ where the meaning is clearly intended to be ‘biological sex’ features in a lot of policy and even legislation. That then makes life harder for women (ie the female sex).

It’s shocking how much ‘gender’ is used as if it was interchangeable with ‘sex’ because whoever is drafting hasn’t thought about it and doesn’t understand that sex and gender have different meanings, and wants to be polite. Or more likely these days because whoever is drafting knows full well.. but is conflating them purposely for genderist political reasons.
Genderists campaign to remove biological sex as a meaningful category because recognising biological reality would contradict their misogynistic men’s sexual rights entitlement agenda. Some people get on board with that, because they feel this is all fine and it doesn’t affect their own rights or because they want to want to be ‘kind’ and swallow down their own feelings of cognitive dissonance.

TheShoesa · 24/06/2020 08:38

EmmaGrundy regardless of the views of the person who you are meant to contact, if you point out that the council can't take it upon themselves to change what is written in the EA you might get somewhere.

My council changed to Sex (Gender) which isn't great, but was better than just gender. I keep meaning to check if it has changed back again.

12boo · 25/06/2020 07:53

sassh
Does this mean that's there's no protected characteristic of sex? I probably need to read it again

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sashh · 25/06/2020 08:02

12boo yes it does.

Fieldofgreycorn · 25/06/2020 08:52

and doesn’t understand that sex and gender have different meanings,

They used to mean the same, and they still do as far as most people are concerned. It’s a fairly recent thing them meaning something different.

Most people are uncomfortable saying the word particularly on the front line when talking to or writing documentation for old, young or otherwise.

Kit19 · 25/06/2020 09:01

given what is at stake when sex and gender are mixed up, i now make a point of writing biological sex

anything with gender on it when they mean biologoical sex gets sent back with it corrected

Kit19 · 25/06/2020 09:04

The Equality ACt 2010 has not been repealed, indeed whenever I raise Self ID with my TRA friend she always snaps at me that the Equality Act will protect women and its not being repealed. There are 9 protected charcteristics including sex and gender reassignment. Public bodies can't rewrite the protected characteristics to suit themselves

not listing sex when sex is the protected characteristic is misleading and potentially illegal

ProfessorSillyStuff · 25/06/2020 09:08

ChattyLion Thanks for your informative post. I'm trying to learn more about this. I read that we could write to our mps in support of amendment 49 (stalker register and doestic violence perpetrator management) and amendment 84 ( misogny as hate speech)
Your post was really informative thanks, it's really hard to get this information!
I also wrote to liz truss asking her to support these amendments.

sashh · 25/06/2020 09:42

They used to mean the same, and they still do as far as most people are concerned. It’s a fairly recent thing them meaning something different.

No it didn't.

'Sex' has a meaning in law, it was the 'sex discrimination act' in the 1970s.

This is the NHS, the largest employer in the UK.

I have emailed them and said how dangerous the wording is, giving examples like smear tests and prostate exams, also medical history has to be taken as 'sex'.

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