Mermaids: no parental access to emails

[Pigeonfaces]

I’ve seen some stuff on twitter recently about Mermaids telling children that the email address they use to access a forum (presumably a Mermaids support forum) needs to be one their parents can’t access.

Obviously this looks absolutely awful. No reputable organisation should be encouraging children to have an online life their parents can’t supervise.

I wondered if the (faulty) rationale behind this was that the email account would provide access to the forum- so anyone with access to the account could access the forum.

But this made me wonder about something else - how on earth does Mermaids know who the people using the forum actually are? How do they know some of them aren’t middle aged men looking for vulnerable kids? What is the security for this forum?

And if the forum can’t be made secure, what on earth is Mermaids doing having the forum at all? Isn’t their internet based model inherently unsafe given the ages of the children potentially involved?

Mermaids are a safeguarding nightmare.

They have a button on their website that children can press if someone comes into the room and they don't want them to see what site their on - it takes you to a generic Wikipedia site.

It's creepy. If children are struggling with their gender identity or whatever, the usual safeguarding protocols are to encourage children to talk to their parents unless that parent has been identified as a risk. Mermaid don't have a statutory duty like for example the NSPCC. This is way beyond their remit.

This keeping secrets ethos is really alarming. It's extremely unsafe and flies in the face of well established safeguarding protocols.

They don't - they have no idea at all if it's adults posing as children to find out how their moderates speak to the children or whether there are predatory adults posing as children.

There have been data breaches in their chat rooms for the latter I believe. They have a chat room for parents and a separate one for children/under 18s.

I won't post them but the screen shots I've seen show them admiring to not being medical professionals and at the same time they advise them as if they were.

*admitting

Eurgh.

Hmmm

Well other charities use a special button so they can quickly shut the page if they need to eg DV charities.

When mermaids adopted this there was a thread on here I think, a bit hmm, because it reinforced the idea that children's parents WILL react badly, will NOT be on their side etc etc

The getting children to get an email address to use is iffy though. The forum is from 12 to 19. I have a 12 yo and it's still very young. Young to be getting burner emails to access sites their parents don't know about. Because after mermaids, they know how it's done and could use it for other means.

Re checking the site says this

'If you would like to join the youth group you will need to read and agree to follow the rules and code of conduct, plus supply us with a certain amount of personal information so we can verify your identity and make sure that your application is genuine.'

'As part of the security measures, you will be required to supply us with a telephone number, so that we can call you before we can approve you to join the group. The call will be from a witheld number, to maintain confidentiality. If you would prefer, you can supply us with a Skype ID as an alternative contact means, but we will still need the telephone number for our security checks.'

This feels too grown up for 12. Supplying personal info to a stranger on the phone?

The forum is open 12 to 19 which feels like too large a range as well.

The main thing though is that mermaids have in the past had massive data protection failures which they didn't seem to react to, with the seriousness you might expect.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-48652970

Is this the same Twitter thread a parent was complaining becuase despite having unsubscribe his/her son was still receiving invites from homophobic forums or something?

I used to work for a charity which helped people who were drug addicts and alcoholics, so not the same area I know, but each client was allocated a named member of staff to contact and they would then refer them to various people who were qualified to help them. I would have expected something similar with mermaids and that the parents would be involved as much as possible, not to just put vulnerable minors into a forum which is basically going to be an echo chamber.

Does anyone know if they actually have any staff who are qualified to deal with dysphoria?

All this is very, very concerning.

This feels too grown up for 12. Supplying personal info to a stranger on the phone?

Its completely inappropriate for a children's charity.
Mermaids Charity does not understand children's Safeguarding principles & their responsibilities.

ICO guidelines specific to children's data:
ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/key-data-protection-themes/children/

Thing is a 12 yo being rung up and asked to provide personal info, they have no frames of reference this.

Is the caller who they say they are?
Is this information that it's normal to provide to check who you are?

Thanks for the ico link.

This is relevant-
'If you are relying on consent as your lawful basis for processing, when offering an online service directly to a child, in the UK only children aged 13 or over are able to provide their own consent.
For children under this age you need to get consent from whoever holds parental responsibility for the child - unless the online service you offer is a preventive or counselling service.'

Their forum is from age 12. I don't think they can argue it's counselling. I'm not sure what preventive means? But whatever it is I'm not sure a forum chatting to a load of strangers up to age 19 is it?

All of the laws, regulations, best practices, standards etc are being ignored across these orgs. I doubt people thought they would simply be ignored by so many orgs including public sector. But here we are. And turns out, there's not actually much recourse.

As part of the security measures, you will be required to supply us with a telephone number, so that we can call you before we can approve you to join the group. The call will be from a witheld number, to maintain confidentiality.

Supplying personal information to someone who calls you from a withheld number, whose identity you can't verify? I wouldn't do that. Children shouldn't be doing that.

But whatever it is I'm not sure a forum chatting to a load of strangers up to age 19 is it?

A forum chatting to a load of strangers who claim to be up to age 19.

Shinyfootball yes DV charities have 'safe codes', buttons for quick access, confidential addresses etc because the people accessing their sites are in danger from someone close to them.

It wouldn't be so bad in itself, except for all the other alarm bells that posters above identity.

Mermaids appears to be a homophobic child grooming organization.

Children do not have the experience, nouse, maturity to handle that.

It's just such a weird thing to think of appropriate.

I mean also what about 12yo who don't have a phone?

What sort of questions are they asking to check the application is valid.

How does the forum work? Is each post premoderated? I feel really uncomfortable with the idea of 12 yo and 19 yo sharing personal stories etc with each other on line.

There have been a few other groups and things mentioned on here where the age range seems too broad- these were meeting in real life things. I'll see if I can remember.

Yes, re age range, my son wanted to attend a trans support group that was for 13-25yr olds. I said no. Minors being 'supported' by unknown adults? Not happening on my watch.

13-25 wtf

That is totally inappropriate.

@ShinyFootball

13-25 wtf

That is totally inappropriate.

Ikr?

Said support group did not answer my emails containing polite safeguarding questions either. Surprise! '

Canada

'Critics also blasted a circulated “swim dress” code for the event, open to “youth ages 12 – 24””that said “anything below the waist must be covered” saying it allowed topless swimming.'

12 to 24 swimming? 'All Genders, All Sexualities, No Judgment.”'

I mean what on earth. 12 and 24 should not be mixing without supervision at all really.

Interestingly the complaints seem to have focused on the topless bit and not the 12-25 bit.

What person, LGBT+ or otherwise, wants to mingle with underage children in an event at a pool???

www.google.com/amp/s/www.columbiavalleypioneer.com/news/lgbtq-themed-swim-at-b-c-pool-cancelled-after-online-backlash/amp/

Allsorts

'Allsorts Youth Project listens to, supports & connects children & young people under 26 who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans or unsure (LGBTU) of their sexual orientation and/or gender identity.'

'Allsorts of Online Support
29th May 2020
All Youth Groups, One-to-One Emotional Support and Advocacy (Practical Support) for LGBTU+ children and young people are all available online.
‍
If you are aged 5-25, LGBT+ or unsure of your gender identity and/or sexual orientation (LGBT+) and live in Sussex or the South East, get in touch to find out more.'

5?

I mean that's just nonsense. Do they get gender questioning 5 yo contacting them? I mean who is even writing this stuff? Connecting 5-26 yo what could go wrong? I assume they aren't actually doing that but who knows.

I mean has whoever wrote that met a 5yo?

Online 1-1 support?

What person, LGBT+ or otherwise, wants to mingle with underage children in an event at a pool???

I think we all know the answer to that.

Thing is, we are all the parents of the children at risk here, potentially.

The people whose business this is are (1) the parents who think their children might be trans, plus (2) all the parents who don't think their child might be trans.

Well exactly

So much of this stuff has massive risk written all over it, I just don't understand.

I suppose it's the same as other trusted groups that have been used by people with ill intent.

The Canada thing is so weird. Female chests are more bothersome than inviting 12 to 22 yo to come along and get to know each other at the pool? I mean anywhere else would be weird enough, why this.

They say it's about accepting your body. How has getting body confidence become the idea that taking your clothes off in front of all and sundry is progressive? Actually it feels like a remix of what has been sold to women as empowerment?

e.g. Peter tatchell saying that mixed sex mixed age changing would normalise the body and stop everyone being so hung up.. (or similar, can't find the quote now. There was a thread).