Where can I find a comprehensive but accessible explanation of gamer gate?

[ArriettyJones]

Just that.

Thanks.

Oh well fuck her then! She deserves everything she gets!

I mean...it doesn't matter what you think about video games. The pertinent point is what you think about terrorising women with different opinions.

I'm not opposed to the idea that games are getting SJW'd into boringness - not at all. I don't have a lot of interest in telling off people for playing sexist video games. I don't think stories are a good target for social justice. I prefer to worry about people that exist, myself.

However, I have personally been at the pointy end of identity targeted internet harassment and I can't understand how anyone can willingly associate themselves with these tactics. Like, at what point when you're carefully photoshopping your opponents' face onto a holocaust victim do you say to yourself, ah, yes - I'm on the side of light here.

You are conflating actual abuse with edgy memes and trolling. And putting words in my mouth - I never said ‘Fuck her then’. I’m providing my perspective, for what that’s worth.

Abuse and threats are abhorrent and absolutely wrong. Edgy memes only exist because someone somewhere is getting up in arms about it. It’s just a wind up technique.

So there you go OP. This thread itself is a good illustration of why you'll struggle to find a decent unbiased explanation of Gamergate.

nauticant yes, because:

a) non-gamers can’t understand it
b) actual gamers have very strong feelings about it
c) SJWs really don’t get it and make it up to be about something else

It seemed like a lot of people with too much time on their hands, to me.

@7Worfs

Just for context - the women playing games who just log on to actually play are usually well respected and their sex is not something even mentioned (or even known). I have made many many friends like that. Most of my guilds were quite even split 50:50 male to female ratio too.

What male nerds don’t like and some actively reject is the attention seeking “Gamer girl coming through, teehee don’t hit on me silly boys!”

Don’t bother telling me I’ve internalised misogyny if you haven’t been part of gaming communities in those days. You can’t possibly know what it was like. For many gamers (usually deeply introverted) gaming communities were as important as anything real-life related.

Indeed - they are perceived to be male. In my experience, the " hey look at me girl gamers" were often males larping as females to get stuff. Most female players I knew took great pains not to be perceived as female.

I'm another one who'd like to read an unbiased source as the abuse was very familiar to one who had quit gaming because of it.

Indeed - they are perceived to be male

They aren’t perceived to be male where there’s extensive interaction and voice comms, and friendship.

But they are treated as males, so equally. No song and dance or special treatment.

@nauticant

So there you go OP. This thread itself is a good illustration of why you'll struggle to find a decent unbiased explanation of Gamergate.

Yes, I see.

Although it’s also turning into quite a good primer in its own right.

I thought this piece by Jesse Singalnwas good. He had the same difficulty getting gamergaters to articulate the issues involved as can be seen in this thread.

www.thecut.com/2014/10/gamergate-should-stop-lying-to-itself.html

If the simple fact that many women are hiding their sex should speak volumes on the treatment they receive being less than welcome when they are transparent.

Thing is I really do see both sides here. Prior to gamergate itself I followed some pretty toxic stories of women’s treatment. Like a BioWare developer who made a point that story cutscenes are skippable for gamers who want to get straight into combat, so why not have skippable combat sections for those like her who want to get more stuck into story. The abuse she received was flat out wrong. Another esports gamer getting deeply inappropriate comments from her team leader in a Street Fighter x Tekken tournament on a stream, also not cool.

However this whole video games make you sexist was a bit over the top, and parallels were made with video games being responsible for real world violence when the science did not back that up. The wider gaming press uncritically rushed to the defence on one but not the other.

I also don’t particularly agree with a lot of Anita Sarkeesian’s critiques, but that in no way should mean she’s not allowed to make them. The world is better off with diversity of opinion and approach, but a little critical thinking would have done both sides in this some good.

Yeah I’ve been a gamer my whole life too, 7, and couldn’t disagree more with you.

The whole “sure you can be here I guess but you have to be so visible about it” idea really is misogynist. Women should be able to wear what they want not have to wear some unisex outfit to fit in. It’s pretty much like telling a woman in Saudi Arabia why doesn’t she wear a burqa if she doesn’t want to get harassed by men.

Btw If some men are so gullible / stupid / lonely that they will throw money at some streamer because She wears a low cut shirt and uses kiss emojis, I might roll my eyes a bit but ultimately I’m happy For her to take his money.

I agree with many But not all of Anita S. Critiques. It was really quite hilarious how upset gamers get when you say “I don’t like Something about the thing you like”. Would have been funny anyway if thousands of them hadn’t followed up with literal death threats.

Anita S. plays video games. Ergo she is a gamer. What a silly thing to say.

What a silly thing to say.

How about you state your opinion without insulting mine?

Gloriana thanks for the article - it’s almost as dismissive to gamers as your post. 👍

7 didn’t intend to be insulting - I certainly say silly things pretty often. Care to proviDe any substantive response? What is a “gamer“ if not someone who plays games? How do I play a game correctly in order to be counted? What are the disqualifiers?

A lot of this is I think at the heart of the whole thing. Gaming used to be niche - it’s now more mainstream and accessible and some people didn’t like that idea. Any Thoughts?

Sure. As you point out, gaming has changed dramatically. In my most active years gaming used to be very niche, with the average age of players about 25, mostly well educated and with jobs in STEM.
So I concede that this time has long gone.

To me a gamer is someone who firstly and obviously, plays a lot (and I don’t mean Candy Crush or sudoku). Secondly, they must be part of the actual community (not filthy casuals You are a gamer so I am sure you know this is a joke). Thirdly, a love and passion for games. Fourthly, something I can’t explain well, but the unspoken gratitude and appreciation for finally having found ‘your people’ after a life of not quite fitting.

Hope that clarifies a bit.

Would your comment about "community" mean that someone who only plays single-player games or games in single-player mode isn't a "gamer"?

Good question nauticant.

I have never seen completely isolated players who never connect with others at least on forums or talk about games with others offline. I assume they exist, but no one knows about them on account of their isolation.

I would venture a guess they don’t care about being labelled gamers.

In the days of single player games communities existed, my personal experience:

Gaming magazines had huge communities around them (forums, IRC, annual meet ups)

Talking to schoolmates about games

LAN parties

Oh and the Internet cafes ofc!

Is there anything more 90s than that?

Sure, I get it. Gamer to some people describes an identity. I also didn’t fit in as a kid, in college made good friends with other people some of them boys who gamed too. Nowadays I identify as a “filthy casual“ myself, though I still play for hours Each week. I play more casually because I literally can’t find the time to play as much as I used to given I have a job and kids which demand my time).

Still I can’t see how the identity definition is particularly useful. What If someone, plays games for hundreds of hours and writes commentary on it online? That’s what gaming journalists are, including Anita Sarkeesian. What if someone is a game maker but rarely plays them? If I used to game but can’t for practical reasons am I still a gamer?

I think what seems to have happened is that a lot of people who disagree with gamergate Discourse and definitions nevertheless Buy and play a lot of games (and not just candy crush). So the game making industry is of course going to cater to their expanding market. Jesse Singal is Himself a gamer, for example, he posts About it pretty often.

For me I saw gaming go from games that I at least though appealed to pretty much everyone... to the sort of Xbox era Of immature shooters like Halo, and worse things like Gears of War. I never realized how misogynistic the gaming community was until I went online. I’d only ever played with my brothers and their friends in person And these were all sweet guys who wouldn’t act that way. In college I didn’t have any interest in hanging with the “counter strike crew” - despite them being the most serious gamers - because those guys were the same kind of immature kids I had always avoided Online - instead I played With my friends who are not assholes.

So in my view gaming has always included a diversity of opinion and type and amount of games people play. I’d rather it be a big tent than some club where I have to use homophobic And misogynist slurs to fit in.

Lurker yes - for many it’s an identity because it was the biggest part of our lives for so long. I also have a toddler, so it’s really hurting my gaming.

Re journalists - I can’t say who’s this and that, but if one plays and writes with an agenda, I’d hesitate to call them a gamer.

I may be an elitist, I just realised. I’m okay with it though.

Also your closing paragraph - I think different genres and games attract different people.

My direct experience is from adventure games (think Lucas Arts), RPGs, early days Blizzard games, MMORPGs and later on MOBAs. These communities attracted mostly decent players, and many fantastic ones I am still friends with more than a decade since we last logged off.

As a male gamer I have never been subjected to a gamer purity test of any kind. I think purity tests in any case are asinine. Re: Anita, as games increase in cultural importance they cry out for a multitude of critiques and perspectives, whilst I disagree with a lot of her analysis, ad hominems about her worthiness as a gamer don’t deal with the crux about what she says.

What I will credit her with is starting a cultural conversation that has encouraged better representations of female characters in video games, and more of them. I personally see
games as art, and by definition I welcome more people engaging with a medium I love.

That engagement I very much include people I wouldn’t agree with politically or philosophically as if we share an interest it becomes a connective channel, through which we can influence one another, and that is a cultural positive.

As a male gamer

Way to start a post.

I have never been subjected to a gamer purity test of any kind

If it helps, I’m judging you now.

Why did Anita Sarkeesian receive death threats for her series on sexist tropes in video gaming? It's not as though she was wrong. There's no justification for the vitriol aimed at her and others like her. As someone who has played every game from manic miner to mmorpgs, I have no time at all for the "nerd's side". Pretty much everyone with an interest in gaming is a nerd. If you are identifying with the side making the death threats against women, I'd definitely say that's some internalised misogyny going on there and I feel more than entitled to say it as a "proper gamer".