Is feminism dead - BBC R4 tonight

[Xanthangum]

8pm this evening. Might be worth a listen?

"Journalist and author Ella Whelan asks if contemporary feminism has lost its way. Is it in fact... dead?

Maybe feminism used to be a dirty word, but now it’s on the lips of politicians, actors or almost any public figure male or female as a must-have badge of credibility. Ella doesn't use the label feminist to describe herself, but she still believes passionately that women’s freedom in all its potential has yet to be achieved.

In Girl Power RIP, she looks back over the battles women have fought for greater equality and pinpoints where she feels it went wrong. Weaving through the big wins and debates for women over the past 50 years - from abortion rights, contraception and equal pay to anti-porn, No More Page 3 and #metoo - she looks at where we are now and questions whether the current discussion around women’s rights and women’s freedom is helpful or even healthy.

Speaking with feminist journalist Julie Bindel, women’s activists Sophie Walker and Shola Mos-Shogbamimu, and academics Joanna Williams and Zoe Strimpel, Ella asks if feminism is still relevant or whether the fight for women's liberation has ended up spawning a culture of victimhood that's damaging women."

when you hear some feminists defending putting rapists in women's prisons you do have to ask the question

I heard her on triggernometry. I'd have to listen again to remember why I thought this, but I remember thinking that though I agreed with some of what she said, there was plenty that I didn't agree with and I found her lacking on the subject of feminism. I just can't remember why! I do remember that I came away from it feeling frustrated by her, as I did from an article by her I read recently in The Critic. Will be interested to listen though.

@zanahoria

when you hear some feminists defending putting rapists in women's prisons you do have to ask the question

Not feminists. I’m sure there is a word for it but it’s not feminism.

I'm not going to call myself a feminist anymore, should they be any doubt about who I centre in MY feminism, I shall call myself a women's campaigner.

I shall not align with women who call themselves feminist when they put men's feelings above/centred before women's rights.

Sharing this as it might be interesting for others. I think it needs its own thread!

victimfocusblog.com/2020/06/18/to-my-radical-feminist-sisters/

BBC needs to be invited to the next WPUK meeting.

Dead?? Lol. They're just looking in the wrong place.

People were asking that on the BBC when I was a teenager. It's not ever true unless and until women stop campaigning for women's rights.

The problem now is that it's been co-opted by a bunch of idiots, who have legit swallowed the idea that it's shameful for women to centre themselves in their own liberation movement, and that all true feminists worry about liberating other groups first.

It seems never to occur to them that 1) that's the most effective derail in history, and 2) that derail relies on women accepting the feminine stereotype of selfless service to others, to their own detriment.

No other liberation movement is shamed for prioritising the cause itself. It's acceptance by liberal feminism is sad testimony to just how deep internalised misogyny runs.

*its acceptance. Sorry!

when you hear some feminists defending putting rapists in women's prisons you do have to ask the question

Or arguing against sending rapists to prison at all because that's 'carceral feminism'.

It's obvious to me that feminism has lost its way. It's been corrupted by identity politics, and too many men have got involved, pushing their own interests. But I think there was a problem with feminism becoming overly academic. It lost sight of real world issues and became abstract and meaningless. That's how queer theory started.

I just passed a couple of white teen girls off to their BLM protest - both carrying felt ripped penned ‘black trans right matters’.

Feminism - not trendy or sexy enough for the youth. FGM probably too ‘icky’ for them.

when some feminist insist sex work is work and encourage girls to doing it...well....

Dead? No, just look at this board!

I guess... I just despair when I see young women all Dewey eyes over issues that if not nothing to do with women, can actually harm women - and thats the hill they have chosen?

Liberal feminism has lost its way. The only way to be a feminist now is the be a radical. Radical feminism is far from dead.

I saw an image today with the legend ''if your intersectionality centres men it isn't feminism''.

@NotTerfNorCis

It's obvious to me that feminism has lost its way. It's been corrupted by identity politics, and too many men have got involved, pushing their own interests. But I think there was a problem with feminism becoming overly academic. It lost sight of real world issues and became abstract and meaningless. That's how queer theory started.

Yes, I think it's been due for a kind of revisioning or renewal for a while. Which is common with all kinds of activism and ideological perspectives, they have a period of activity but they get bogged down or start to meet up with dead ends in some areas. Then it takes someone with a new perspective or way forward or way of thinking, or a new challenge to address, to get things moving again.

Right now I think there is a sense where time has passed and we are seeing outcomes of different ideas and it's possible to say - maybe that wasn't as clear as it ought to have been, maybe we should have addressed this problem more, or differently, maybe this really was a bad idea. Many of the ideas that led to identity politics and queer theory came out of feminism, so we need to think about that. Id politics needs to be rooted out which will be difficult. Part of that will be thinking about the tendency to assume statistical equivalency to be the way forward to equality. The tendency to vilify women with different views, who take a different approach, needs to be addressed.

There's no official True Doctrine and no head office. Each generation of women face new challenges, so they adapt it to their needs.

The problem is that a generation lost contact and never learned that feminism is something you do, not something you learn about in gender studies.
You are active in the women's sector, or in the areas you work, or in your own field or sphere.

And imo this explains why the UK has been more active in resisting self ID.

Here we go. I've got some strong booze and if necessary I'm prepared to shout at my radio.

Zoe Strimpel was good just now, and now they’re talking about the banalization of feminism (air con is sexist) - all quite good so far, and grounded in women’s history.

Gee, Catharine MacKinnon sounds ultra-posh ...

I'm hearing Ella Whelan, whose views often drive me up the wall, giving a platform to loads of views that she disagrees with.

That said though, mid-programme she's like a stuck record over the objectification of women being no problem that women can easily ignore.

I do wonder how the No More Page 3 campaign would play out today. We're those campaigners actually evil SWERFs and not respecting how liberating it is to have your tits out in The Sun?

anyone got anything for high blood pressure?

*were

I'm using booze BlackeyedSusan.