Excluding trans women from women's single sex spaces is discriminatory - Human Rights Watch

[stumbledin]

Extract from letter to PM:

" ... We are particularly concerned by media reports suggesting that the government plans to exclude trans women from women-only spaces. This would be a seriously regressive and discriminatory step. The government’s own 2018 consultation on the GRA states clearly that “trans and non-binary people are members of our society and should be treated with respect.” However, this proposal would force trans women to use male facilities, despite strong evidence that this puts them at risk of violence. Conversely, there is no evidence that allowing trans women access to women-designated spaces, which has been the case for a number of years, puts other women at risk.

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health, an interdisciplinary professional association comprised of over 700 members worldwide, has found that medical and other barriers to gender recognition for transgender individuals, including diagnostic requirements, “may harm physical and mental health.”

In line with international human rights standards and medical best practice, Human Rights Watch recommends that the government reform the GRA to allow for a transparent, accessible administrative process for legal gender recognition based on self-identification. We urge you to reject any policies that would subject trans women to discrimination and expose them to harm, in particular by denying them access to safe spaces for women. ... "

www.hrw.org/news/2020/06/17/letter-uk-prime-minister-gender-recognition-reform

ie trans women have human rights - biological women dont, which seems to mean biological women dont have human rights or maybe dont even qualify as human!!

They are advocating the 8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are very similar orgs and they have both lost the plot on women’s rights. Amnesty was created back in the 1960s, to protect prisoners of conscience, HRW in the context of the last phase of the Cold War (70s/80s). Things that used to trouble them were free speech and communist repression. Both organisations are heavily influenced by American (liberal) elites and donors. I don’t think we should be surprised about this and this is not the first time they have been accused of bias.
Their logic is flawed, they don’t engage with the evidence (website listing offences committed by transgender people is ‘trans crime UK’, I believe, all based on news reports) or the dissenting view of experts (prison governors who are very clear that exclusions of male offenders should be applied to prisons).

female prisons, sorry

But nobody is banning transwomen, just self-id transwomen surely. Isn't that the distinction we're concerned with?

there is no evidence that allowing trans women access to women-designated spaces, which has been the case for a number of years, puts other women at risk.'

Completely pisses me off. Totally misses the point.

As discussed repeatedly on this board.

Firstly - it does affect safety - TW are adult males. By definition woman and girls safety is at risk.

Even if physical safety wasn’t an issue, adult males - by definition entering these spaces - harms women and girls.

There is no consent from women and girls to share spaces with adult males.

Even if a physical asssault has not happened, they advocate:

Adult males watching young girls changing - This used to be called voyeurism. An offence.

Adult males undressing in front of young girls - used to be called exhibitioning/flashing. This used to be an offence.

How are we supposed to differentiate these men?

Removing the rights of women and girls to dignity and privacy as well as safety means women and girls WONT use these spaces - and will be discriminated against.

Conversely, there is no evidence that allowing trans women access to women-designated spaces, which has been the case for a number of years, puts other women at risk.

Yeah right. They haven’t watched this, then.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=9NpIy-0_esU

@BillywilliamV

But nobody is banning transwomen, just self-id transwomen surely. Isn't that the distinction we're concerned with?

Uh how do we know who is a transwoman and who is self iding as one?

@LonginesPrime

medical and other barriers to gender recognition for transgender individuals, including diagnostic requirements, “may harm physical and mental health.”

My DD has severe anxiety and can't attend school because being around other people causes her severe mental and emotional distress.

She's being treated with therapy and medication to hopefully get to a point where she can eventually be around people, through learning to cope with the reality of the world.

At no point in her treatment has it been suggested that all the other pupils should be sent home so that she can use the school without experiencing distress.

The notion that women's spaces should be opened up to maintain the fiction that TWAW in case a transwoman gets triggered by realising they're in a male body is insane.

Excellent analogy

Even transwomen with a gender recognition certificate (GRC) can be lawfully excluded from single-sex spaces for women in the UK. It’s just that this is rarely applied and lobbying organisations such as Stonewall have also asked for these provisions to be scrapped. It is possible to get a GRC without hormones or surgery.

Excluding Transwomen from women’s single sex spaces is discriminatory

Is it not that excluding transwomen from mens single sex spaces is discriminatory?

Including transwomen in women's single sex spaces is discriminatory. As soon as a transwoman enters one it becomes mixed sex.

" ... We are particularly concerned by media reports suggesting that the government plans to exclude trans women from women-only spaces. This would be a seriously regressive and discriminatory step. The government’s own 2018 consultation on the GRA states clearly that “trans and non-binary people are members of our society and should be treated with respect.” However, this proposal would force trans women to use male facilities, despite strong evidence that this puts them at risk of violence. Conversely, there is no evidence that allowing trans women access to women-designated spaces, which has been the case for a number of years, puts other women at risk."

Ralph Lucas is a Conservative back bencher in The House of Lords.
May 5th 2020 he published clarification he had received from the government of the definition used for man and woman. This is based in Equality Act 2010

twitter.com/LordLucasCD/status/1257642470692868097

It may be useful to apply such definition to statements such as this in order to make the sense clearer.

As "Man": from the Equality Act 2010: 'A male of any age'" therefore surely a male of any age may thus be described as a man?

They're delusional, they're not taking into account reality and facts at all here.

Yes, there have been multiple assaults and worse on female people through people identifying as TW using female spaces. Karen White and Katie D's victims being the ones off the top of my head. Why do those females and their horrific, lifelong damage experiences get vanished from reality? Mixed sex space incidents happen constantly to females, by male people, and how those male people feel about their authentic inner selves and what gender label they feel is part of their best life at the time of assaulting really has no bearing on this being utterly unacceptable, foul behaviour in which a female significantly suffers and a male has a bloody nice time.

How many TW have made the media for being assaulted in male spaces in the same time? Because this would be trumpeted from every activist and all over the BBC and anywhere else, the names would be known as the evidence for the agenda they seek.

What about the significant numbers of females who will have no provision of any kind as a result of all spaces being mixed sex? They get vanished too. It's apparently better to meet males' needs for better happiness than for vulnerable and marginalised groups of mere females to have their needs met at all.

The only reason for all female evidence and people being vanished (and talked about in this moaning tone as if they're some physical barrier to shift) and the only care and consideration at all being male people's needs and feelings, is male supremacy.

This is an agenda that sees males of superior value and importance to females, and is prepared to lie and lie and lie to achieve a world in which males dominate all spaces and the cost to females is stuffed under the rug.

Is there an organisation like FPFW preparing a response to this delusional and supremacist lunacy? I'm very happy to help, the Baroness also may be.

"We are particularly concerned by media reports suggesting that the government plans to exclude trans women from women-only spaces."

But what is a transwoman? Any male, LITERALLY ANY MALE who says that he is a woman.

" ... We are particularly concerned by media reports suggesting that the government plans to exclude [some men] from women-only spaces. This would be a seriously regressive and discriminatory step. The government’s own 2018 consultation on the GRA states clearly that “trans and non-binary people are members of our society and should be treated with respect.” However, this proposal would force [some men] to use male facilities, despite strong evidence that this puts them at risk of violence. Conversely, there is no evidence that allowing [some men*] access to women-designated spaces, which has been the case for a number of years, puts other women at risk."

• Edited for clarity, use of 'men' (pl) as per confirmation by Lord Ralph Lucas 5/5/2020, "Definitions. The government has helpfully pointed out the definitions that they use "Man": from the Equality Act 2010: 'A male of any age'"

twitter.com/LordLucasCD/status/1257642470692868097

The term 'trans woman' does not, to my knowledge, have such clarity of definition provided by UK government. The only known shared characteristic of those who describe themself thus are that they are 'males of any age'

An interesting read here.

wlrnmedia.wordpress.com/2020/06/19/trans-rights-are-mens-rights-no-wonder-they-clash-with-feminists/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

They are advocating the 8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

Indeed.

But what is a transwoman? Any male, LITERALLY ANY MALE who says that he is a woman

Yes! 👍🏻 and I'm fucking sick of hearing otherwise.

The impetus to change women's toilets and changing rooms to unisex/mixed sex/'gender neutral' is to accommodate transwomen. But mixed sex spaces are unsafe for women and girls, putting women and girls in danger of assaults, sex attacks and voyeurism.

The Independent September 2018:
'UNISEX CHANGING ROOMS PUT WOMEN AT DANGER OF SEXUAL ASSAULT, DATA REVEALS'

'The vast majority of reported sexual assaults at public swimming pools in the UK take place in unisex changing rooms, new statistics reveal.'

'The data, obtained through a Freedom of Information request by the Sunday Times, suggests that unisex changing rooms are more dangerous for women and girls than single-sex facilities.'

'Just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment are about incidents in unisex facilities.'

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

despite strong evidence that this puts them at risk of violence. Conversely, there is no evidence that allowing trans women access to women-designated spaces, which has been the case for a number of years, puts other women at risk.

CITE YOUR SOURCES, YOU LYING ASSHOLES.

Your word is not evidence. Your word is not lack of evidence. Thanks to years and years and years of blatant lying from transactivists, your word means NOTHING and I hope the politicians you are writing to are aware of that. I hope everyone becomes aware of that.

Geeez - this is going to lead to so much abuse

Men never lie after all! Never abuse, never sexually assault.

All of these woke idiots, have they even googled autogynephilia

Just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment are about incidents in unisex facilities

These are male-pattern crimes, committed overwhelmingly by men.

I think that a slew of letters and emails to the government, framed on that one might be a good idea.

Rewrite it, a direct rip off of their statements and fake evidence, but recentring women. Sent to Liz Truss perhaps, though others might be good too.
"We are particularly concerned of media reports of the letter sent by Human Rights Watch suggesting that...".

And 1 in 50 males in prison claims to be a woman.

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/one-in-50-prisoners-identify-as-transsexual-amid-concerns-inmates-are-attempting-to-secure-prison-perks/ar-AAE54n4

BillywilliamV

Transwomen are male bodied and very few have any kind of surgery. A male bodied person is generally much larger and stronger than a female and still provides a threat to women, if allowed into single sex spaces.
The vast majority of sexual assaults and violence/murders against women are carried out by male bodied persons.
What kind of male bodied person really insists that they can enter female single sex spaces?

What kind of male bodied person really insists that they can enter female single sex spaces?

What kind of man (male of any age) insists that they can enter female single sex spaces?