Ireland and abortion

[grainnethepirate]

Name change for the thread just in case.

So I went to my doctor today for a pill check. I recently moved to Ireland and this is my first time actually seeing this doctor, what with the coronavirus and the lockdown and everything. I had picked my new GP based on online research.

I've been on the pill for years for health reasons. I'm 32.

So the check goes on, pretty much as normal. I admit that I haven't missed any pills lately, but I haven't always been able to take them bang on the dot on time. I'm caring for my sick father and sometimes his needs just take higher priority in the moment. But I always take them within a window of a few hours and I'm not having sex with a man so there's no risk of me becoming pregnant. I've actually never had sex with a man. I tell the doctor all of this.

I don't tell her the reason for it, which is because I'm gay. I'm not out to anyone in the small town my father lives in because it would automatically make me "the lesbian" and I just don't want to deal with all that while I'm here. But I would have told a doctor in confidence. Only I never got the chance. The doctor immediately began to browbeat me about all the precautions I'll need to take "once I become sexually active". She went on and on, hardly stopping to draw breath. It was clear from her demeanour that she thought me stupid and irresponsible. I tried to speak up. I got as far as "that's really not going to be an issue for me". She gave an honest to god double take at this and snapped "when you get a boyfriend you'll need to use condoms".

The idea that close encounters of the trouser snake variety might be of no interest to me seemed completely unimaginable to her. I would normally have said something by this point, but I was starting to feel really uncomfortable. Not only did lesbians clearly not exist in this doctor's personal universe - I also got the impression she didn't believe me about the lack of a man in my life. I'm used to idiots telling me I'm "too pretty to be a lesbian" but I honestly didn't expect to see this attitude coming from my own doctor.

After ten solid minutes of haranguing I suddenly understood what it was all for, because she turns around and says, off the cuff "It's important you know this because this clinic does not support abortion." And then barrels off asking me where I want my prescription sent.

I thought Ireland had repealed the Eighth Amendment? I thought abortion wasn't illegal anymore? But . . . didn't my doctor just tell me my GP surgery won't provide abortion services if I become pregnant? I mean I am understanding that right, aren't I? The long lecture making absolutely sure I knew how to prevent pregnancy, followed by the comment about the whole practice "not supporting" abortion . . . that all means they'd do fuck all for me if I did need an abortion, correct?

I was too stunned to ask her what she meant. I was mostly just relieved I hadn't come out to her and desperate to get out of there. But thinking about it now I'm really disturbed. Can anyone explain to me what the situation actually is in Ireland right now? Is it legal for my doctor to do this?

I'm sorry you experienced that. The doctor was very unprofessional and the blatant homophobia is disgusting. I don't know if it's legal for them to do that but I read an article yesterday about how even though abortion is legal in the north and south of Ireland, Northern Irish doctors are refusing to refer women for abortion so they have to order pills online from charities, go to England or continue with their unwanted pregnancy.

I'm absolutely appalled by this and I want to know why they even bothered legalising it in the first place if they're not going to attempt to follow the law. I'm in Ireland too by the way. It's so unfair. I'm 100% pro choice and this shit really grinds my gears. The pro birth nutters have way too much power. There will be a rise of women keeping rapist/incest babies and these women will be so vulnerable and not know who to turn to. I hope you're okay.

Really sorry to hear this, on every level. This is the difficulty with legislation change - it's great to have it in law, of course, but the cultural change takes much, much longer to bed in.

Abortion isn't illegal there now but it's still difficult to access, is my understanding anyway. Doctors in the U.K. can refuse to do an abortion on religious grounds I believe.

I'm so sorry this happened to you. The add was very unprofessional. As you have recently signed up with that GP do you feel you can go elsewhere?

I'm not in Ireland, can you report or complain? I'm always for this but realise this is sensitive and you might not feel comfortable.

So sorry you have to deal with this.

Sorry you experienced that, OP. Sounds like you got a nutter for a doctor because it's definitely not the norm for GPs in Ireland. An individual doctor can refuse to refer a woman for abortion if they have a conscientious objection, yes - same as in the UK - but if so they're meant to direct the woman to a provider who will.

I'm not altogether sure why you were so reluctant to say you were lesbian, though - perhaps it was the vibes from the weird doctor. Being gay is not a big deal in Ireland. The country voted in marriage equality by a landslide, the Taoiseach is gay... even my elderly parents don't find it remarkable any more (they would have 10-15 years ago). I get that you said you didn't want to be out in the small town your father lives in, but you would expect doctors to keep patient confidentiality 🤷‍♀️

Anyway, I hope you can avoid that unpleasant individual and find a more normal doctor in a different surgery

How awful for you, that doctor sounds very unprofessional. Unfortunately care providers still hold the key to access to abortion, and can refuse on religious grounds. I’ve been denied help for a medical abortion ‘gone wrong’ in the U.K, because all the doctors on duty were religious objectors, and my life wasn’t in immediate danger (not that they felt comfortable discharging me from hospital either, go figure).

I'm in Northern Ireland where we only got the legal right to abortion a few months ago and until then girls were still being prosecuted for it. As of today, there is still nowhere in the whole country who actually does an abortion if you need one.
So it doesn't surprise me that you're having this problem in the South, but that doesn't make it right in any way shape or form. If you see her again, tell her you're offended because you're deeply religious and thinking about becoming a nun.
But really, is there any way you can find another doctor or is she the only one for miles and miles?

Or can you report her to the practice manager or get her doctor registration number and report her to the HSE?

Thanks for all the kind comments I've experienced worse in terms of homophobia - it's not nice to feel like you're just completely invisible, but I mostly feel I dodged a bullet by not telling her. I was spared further judgement or questioning of my "lifestyle" at least.

For the people wondering why I don't just come out - Ireland is a lot more accepting now, that's true. I'm not afraid for my safety and I don't think I'd be called slurs in the street or anything. I'm very grateful for that and I think if I was in a different situation - living in Ireland again permanently, or with a partner - then I'd feel differently. It would seem more worth it then. But I'm only here for a few months to look after my dad.

It's hard to explain the reluctance to come out to someone who hasn't been through it. It can be great. There are good people I know even in this town who would probably be really offended to think I wouldn't come out to them. But I lived here when I was younger and I've been back for a while now and people do treat you differently. News goes around on the grape vine. Suddenly people you've never met have heard of you and you're not just Gráinne anymore, you're Gráinne The Lesbian.

You meet someone and you can see them recalibrating. "She doesn't look like a d*" "I wonder if that old friend of hers from school is a lesbian too" "Her poor father, he won't ever have grandchildren" "I bet she just never met a nice fella" "I used to get changed in front of her . . ." "I always thought there was something off about her" Or you get a man your father's age looking at you in a way that means he's flashing back to some lesbian porno, and he's still shaking your hand but you can tell
When they think you're straight they'll just do this stuff right in front of you, and it makes it harder to even think about coming out to them. They'll do things like point out a gay couple across the street and whisper to you that they're lesbians in tones of total scandal. And then debate how mannish they each are and what a waste of the femme one it is. Or some celebrity will come out and you'll get the "she's too pretty to be gay", "it's a phase", "she's just doing it for the attention".

I know it's only minor stuff and I don't like complaining about it because it feels so First World Problems. But it takes up a kind of bandwidth in your mind and I just don't have the energy right now to deal with it. And sometimes you do just want to fit in. You do just want to be Gráinne.

Thanks for all the answers about the Irish abortion system too. Obviously it doesn't effect me (and I hope it never does) but I can't believe this is what women are going through even now. I can't imagine what it would be like to go to that doctor with a crisis pregnancy. They don't advertise that this is their policy. It's not on the website or on any signage, and they don't tell you when you join, so it's really possible you wouldn't know until you were sitting there needing an abortion. It's horrible

I can find another doctor, I hope. A lot of the local ones are struggling to see the patients they do have at the moment with social distancing and the backlog of non-essential appointments, and I'm hearing some don't want to take on new patients until things settle down. But I'm looking into it. I don't really feel comfortable staying where I am

I'm a bit afraid to try reporting anything. It's a small community and people are really attached to their doctors. Even if I could do it anonymously I worry it'd seem like something only an outsider would do and everyone would know it was me. The walls have ears in this town.

And that's my dad's GP practice too. I know doctors can't actually compromise his care or anything but I just want everything to go smoothly for him, and for me as his carer. The surgery is understaffed as it is and I feel like the practice head wouldn't appreciate it if I cost her a doctor. And if this whole thing is a top down policy, it's her policy

OP, I am guessing you are young? That might have been the main thing that set her off - she may see a lot of young women making bad choices. I think one of the risks of being a nurse or doctor is that you keep seeing people making bad decisions, rather like police officers, and you can get a bit cynical about peoplesometimes if you aren't careful. She's still a nutter though.

I had a slightly similar experience, as a middle aged woman, when I went to see the doctor after I found out I was pregnant unexpectedly. It was a locum, and I was just looking for pre-natal care and tests but the doctor was extremely rude and treated me like I was some sort of moron who didn't know how these things happen. Interestingly when I went to get the bloodwork done and I gave her the form, the receptionist said to the other receptionist "ooooh, I thought she wasn't working any more" with a lot of significant inflection - they clearly thought she was a nutter too.

I’m so sorry you went through that. It’s so important to be with a doctor you totally trust.
The hse has an online form ‘my service, my say’. It could be worth filling out or ringing the number?

grainne please don't feel you have to explain why you're not as out as you could be. Everyone's circumstances are different, we all feel differently about it, and you are perfectly entitled to tell or not tell whoever you wish, for whatever reasons you wish.

I'm so sorry you were subjected to this.

I grew up in England and lived there before moving to NI when I was 30.

I realise now I took a lot for granted in terms of rights. It's still not perfect I know but far better than here.

For me it is terrifying that women are being denied their rights to termination.

This isn't just about termination either it's about women in NI being given the same rights as other women across the UK and having autonomy over their own bodies.

It is now legal here but there is no clinics and Stormont are trying to frustrate the matter. Male politicians such as Robin Swann should have no say in this .

Even when there are eventually clinics for termination the judgement from health professionals I think will continue to deter women from having terminations here and most will continue to travel to England where less judgmental and services are easier to access. I assume the fact you've had a termination remains in health records so judgement continues to follow you.

I'd rather get a loan on a credit card and travel to England for a private termination.

I don't want my daughters growing up here. Not like this.