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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

R4 media show

14 replies

TorchesTorches · 17/06/2020 17:03

I just caught the end of a conversation about columnists and their impact. The woman had been a signatory of the Suzanne Moore letter at the Guardian, berating her for being anti trans. The male Times columnist gave a carefully neutral, but actually very good response about the accusation of the Times being anti -trans (and therefore she wouldn't want to work there). I would recommend listening

OP posts:
ValancyRedfern · 17/06/2020 17:19

I just came on to see if anyone had posted about this. What made me really angry was that the female journalist from GalDem (I'm afraid I didn't catch her name) said that Suzanne Moore didn't have the lived experience to write about trans issues. I screamed 'she's a fucking woman!' at the radio, much to 6yo DD's alarm. It also hadn't occured to her before that there might be a generational difference in relation to free speech and 'cancel culture'.

The whole thing made me despair to be honest. She is the future. It also made me despair that she just didn't recognise misogyny when she saw it. She said we should 'use structural analysis to see who had the power' - meaning women had power and trans people didn't (she didn't use 'cis' but her meaning was clear)

nauticant · 17/06/2020 17:37

I'm afraid I didn't catch her name

twitter.com/amolrajan/status/1273273190836559874

twitter.com/Micha_Frazer/status/1235486450810007552

aliasundercover · 17/06/2020 18:27

Gal-dem?

They're the super-woke media group aren't they?

They are all women and 'non-binary', although oddly all the 'non-binary' people are of the non-penis type, rather than the penis-having type.

It'a almost as if deep down they know the difference between men and women.

TorchesTorches · 17/06/2020 18:42

Yes the bit about structural analysis of the power had me very annoyed. As if women structurally hold all the power?! When has that ever happened! Also annoying was her uprise at the end of each sentence? Like everything is a question?

There is indeed a generational divide on this. Or maybe a divide between those with some life experience or some kids to protect.

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ValancyRedfern · 17/06/2020 19:35

Suzanne Moore just liked my tweet about this! fans self

BaronessSnippyPantsofCroneArmy · 17/06/2020 19:49

@ValancyRedfern

Suzanne Moore just liked my tweet about this! fans self
Pours celebratory glass of wine for ValancyRedfern Wine and offers virtual fist bump Smile
ValancyRedfern · 17/06/2020 20:21

Why thank you! I have been so distressed about all this today. Need that glass of wine!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/06/2020 20:34

She said we should 'use structural analysis to see who had the power'

Yes, let's do that, without any bullshit made up stats.

MoleSmokes · 17/06/2020 22:34

There is indeed a generational divide on this. Or maybe a divide between those with some life experience or some kids to protect.

It would be so interesting to compare different attitudes, experiences and influences across age ranges - starting with children. So many times I have seen people write that their teenage children, against expectations, were aware of but dismissive of the whole trans ideology.

If they go to university then they are more likely to encounter a woke battalion at an elite university. (Sorry, I cannot remember the reference for that survey.)

Certain industries and professions seem to have been particularly vulnerable to trans indoctrination and propaganda. And places, eg. Mordor (aka Brighton & Hove - TY fishdoggy !)

Within the spheres that JKR and journalists move, I imagine that there might well be a "generational divide" but that would hardly be a representative sample of the population at large, most of whom have not been subject to indoctrination and "cancel culture".

TorchesTorches point about life experience and parenthood would suggest that at least some of the Ivory Tower wokerati will, in time, be troubled by stirrings of common sense and will be crying themselves to sleep in the trap of silence that they helped to construct.

Micha Frazer-Carroll, opinions editor of gal-dem, sounded well out of her depth on that programme, having to confess that gal-dem (whatever that is) does not actually publish many opinions on anything! Then using that fact to justify not even striving for any diversity of opinion. Why was she even included on that panel? Diversity of lack of relevance?

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000k3gb

ValancyRedfern · 18/06/2020 09:13

I thought the use of the word 'diversity' was really interesting. I imagine Micha Frazer-Carroll sees herself as a champion of diversity, so she was tieing herself in knots trying to explain why Gal dem didn't tolerate diversity of opinion.

ThinEndoftheWedge · 18/06/2020 09:22

Micha Fraser-Carroll - seems to be suggesting that adult males are powerless voiceless victims in the trans debate.

So girls have all the power but adult men really don’t? Which is why adult males need to use the same toilets as girls.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/06/2020 09:50

You don't get more batshit arguments from men's rights activists.

RoyalCorgi · 18/06/2020 10:08

Micha Fraser-Carroll - seems to be suggesting that adult males are powerless voiceless victims in the trans debate.

Yup. I also heard this yesterday and all I could think was: where have your brains gone?

When did these people lose the ability to think critically? The idea that a woman like Suzanne Moore - from a very ordinary working-class background, a woman who has written about her experience of abortion and rape - has more power than, say, Pips Bunce or Jane Fae or Fallon Fox or Caitlin Jenner is so obviously, patently absurd. What is wrong with these people?

RoyalCorgi · 18/06/2020 10:10

And that's quite aside from the other part of the argument, which is that people like Frazer-Carroll have the right to censor people they disagree with. That whole smug, self-satisfied, sanctimonious attitude of being so convinced of their own rightness that anyone who thinks wrong thoughts must be silenced.

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