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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to start a women's union

16 replies

SciFiScream · 16/06/2020 19:51

I've seen it a few times comments along the lines of "we need a women's Union"

I'm seriously interested in starting one up but don't know where/how to start.

This is loosely aligned with my work so I could connect it to an existing legal identity. Maybe. If I can convince my Trustees.

I've got some good contacts.

Is there anyone willing to advise me? Help me? I'm off to text one of my contacts and see what I can find out via her.

OP posts:
JellySlice · 17/06/2020 10:10

I've no idea how to start a women's union, but I'd certainly join one.

Though to be accurate, is it a Women's Union that we need, or a union that recognises women as adult human females? Because you can be certain that MRAs will attack a Women's Union as discriminatory. Or would it be a single-issue union, and therefore be able to justify itself as being legitimate? Wouldn't the constant legal wrangling drain all resources?

SapphosRock · 17/06/2020 14:26

I'd certainly join one too. I can't help with any of the legal aspects but I can build a website if that helps.

OhHolyJesus · 17/06/2020 14:47

I'd join too x

Shedbuilder · 17/06/2020 14:51

I immediately think of Kiri Tunks and Ruth Serwotka, who founded Woman's Place UK and are both union activists and organisers.

Is it a separate union that's needed, or a pressure group to fight to re-establish women's rights within unions that have gone so badly wrong and act as a watchdog so that this never happens again? A few years ago I encountered a transwoman who boasted they were head of the women's section in their union and knew more about women than I did. HTF could that happen?

PlonitbatPlonit · 17/06/2020 17:44

A trade union is legally recognised as able to engage in collective bargaining with employers on behalf of its members.

Workers need trade unions to represent their interests individually (in disciplinary, grievance, sickness management and other processes) and collectively (pay and terms and conditions). One important feature of trade unions is that there is a reciprocal obligation - trade unions represent members who pay union dues, they don't represent non union members (though non union members often benefit from collective agreements made by unions with employers). Unions are more effective when they have union density - the more members, higher percentage of a workforce who are union members the more they are able to leverage this to get the best outcome for their members in negotiation.

There have been women's unions in the past by virtue of sex segregation in the job market - you might look at the history of the Women's Protective and Provident League which promoted trade unionism for women and through the impetus of which unions like the Leeds Spinners were formed.

During the second wave some women's liberation organisations did style themselves as unions (The Chicago Women's Liberation Union is perhaps most famous example) but they didn't negotiate with employers in the way that trade unions do. Internationally, many women's political organisations are styled as unions, but also are not workplace representative organisations.

So, I guess the question is - what do you envisage a women's union to be for?

Is it to represent members legally in situations where the trade union might not do a good job? This sounds like something akin to the medical defence union, and could be an insurance based scheme out of which support for individuals could come. You'd need to look carefully at your subscription and your risks/liabilities, and how to get good legal advice, and how you would define the cases you would represent.

Is it to give members independent advice about employment and workplace matters? How will you 'quality control' and tailor the advice you give? Is it a helpline? A website or portal (member only)?

Is it to lobby and campaign for women's rights? In the workplace? Generally? How does it differ from existing women's campaigns?

I do think that if you want to become a representative of women in the workplace for the purpose of collective bargaining then you are on a hiding to nothing - it would be very difficult to achieve the level of union density to compete against existing trade unions. Small trade unions are rapidly disappearing (merging into other unions) because being small is a definite disadvantage for trade unions. Any new women's union would have to be a 'bolt on' (i.e. an additional subscription) on top of the union representation that workers might feel they need.

endofthelinefinally · 17/06/2020 17:57

I have been thinking about this for a while. I wondered whether one of the health related unions would be prepared to bolt on/be affiliated to a service for female employees in other industries.
I suppose you need to start by finding an organisation that knows what a woman is, then go from there. So you would have to write to possible candidates and ask them for their mission statements.
The difficulty is that the labour party is extremely anti-women.

PlonitbatPlonit · 17/06/2020 18:10

Trade unions are independent of the Labour Party. The direction of influence is, if anything, in the other direction. Not all unions by any stretch are Labour Party affiliates - these are the ones that are:

Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen (ASLEF)
Bakers, Food and Allied Workers Union (BFAWU)
Community (formerly KFAT & ISTC)
Communication Workers Union (CWU)
Fire Brigades Union (FBU)
GMB
Musicians Union (MU)
National Union of Mineworkers (NUM)
Transport Salaried Staffs' Association (TSSA)
UNISON (The Public Services Union)
Unite (general workers in public and private sectors)
Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers (USDAW)

There are 49 TUC affiliate trade unions, and that doesn't include all trade unions

www.tuc.org.uk/unions

There are only really two large unions that are outside of these structures: Royal College of Nursing and British Medical Association.

While Unite has a peculiar bolt on organisation that is a semi-union (Unite Community sections) I don't think it's a particularly attractive structure for most unions to want.

There's no trade union that has an explicitly pro-woman position on sex/gender issues. Some are worse than others.

endofthelinefinally · 18/06/2020 12:03

I thought the trades unions were fundamental to the labour party in terms of funding, votes etc? Is that no longer the case?

endofthelinefinally · 18/06/2020 12:09

Ah. Page didn't load properly.
That is interesting.
I was a member of the RCN for years, but the only time I needed their help they were absolutely useless. My local rep was male and I found him quite patronising tbh.

Shedbuilder · 18/06/2020 12:57

Similar experience in NUJ. 85% of redundancies in one media company were women, including me. Rep was useless, too scared for his own job to do anything at all.

stumbledin · 18/06/2020 14:09

I think "Union" has been used by a number of organisations to mean more than the idea of organising around work place rights eg Mother's Union.

Or even European Union.

So a Women's Union would be about what women have in common as biological females. So it could cover just about everything!

stumbledin · 18/06/2020 14:12

Oh - and the most famous one - Women's Social and Political Union.

DidoLamenting · 18/06/2020 14:16

I've seen it a few times comments along the lines of "we need a women's Union"

I'm seriously interested in starting one up but don't know where/how to start

To do what?

stumbledin · 18/06/2020 14:17

It could be any sort of legal entity you want.

What you have to decide is what type of structure you want eg is it a membership led organisation, or would it be a mutual cooperative, and so on. Decide that and then find the legal structure that comes closes to it. Adopt that and register the name.

The difference between that and say a workplace union, is that the work place has to recognise the Union as being the representative of the workforce.

So who in this instance would you want to recognise that this Women's Union is representative of women? Government, employers, or ...

Not forgetting that other existing women's organisations would also say that they represent women.

Not being negative, but just thinking through the concept.

RoxytheRexy · 18/06/2020 15:06

I’m an RCN rep and I’d love a women specific union. It’s definitely needed in women dominated professions

ProbablyShouldntbut · 18/06/2020 15:15

@endofthelinefinally

I thought the trades unions were fundamental to the labour party in terms of funding, votes etc? Is that no longer the case?
TU's are fundamental to the Labour Party ....but the LP is not fundamental to the trade unions.

Almost all TU's have Women's Committees and representative structures for women - organising within these for properly feminist outlooks makes far more sense than trying to set up new bodies in competition.

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