Famous Gender Non-conforming People

[Wishingstarr]

After reading another thread I really feel we need a list of successful happy well-known people who are very obviously gender-non-conforming (yes I know none of us are!) But we need role models for our kids who are not seeing them unless trans.

It would be great if someone could produce fun short videos suitable for social media and posters etc so that kids understand they don't have to fit stereotypes.

I am a bit out of touch with popular culture but people who come to mind are:

Storme DeLarvarie
Boy George
Rupert Everett (said he wanted to be a girl until his 20s)
Beth Ditto
Ellen DeGeneres
Charlie Covell
Lily Tomlin
Wanda Sykes
Carmelita Tropicana (Alina Troyano)
Radhika Vaz

It's important to have people with a range of sexualities though and not all very flamboyant or extrovert so that kids can see themselves as not just entertainment for others but regular citizens.

Pink I love her and she was a wonderful role model for my now 27 year old dd

Cannot believe I'm the first to say Eddie Izard

Billy Porter

Kurt Cobain

From your list, thinking of accessible evidence, Rupert Everett was amusing but incidentally really on point on the subject, on Desert Island Discs recently. How he liked 'girl stuff' and thought he'd rather be a girl until post-puberty, when he suddenly went 'wahey, sex! Being a gay man is awesome!'. Very poignant when thinking of all those 'trans kids' who, thanks to hormones and surgery, might never have a chance of that epiphany, or a sex life.

Boy George was very straightforward on the topic on his recent R4 lockdown interview with Louis Theroux. Essentially 'anyone who imagines I'm going to make assumptions based on how they look, is a bit foolish'.

Are you talking about appearances or what?

Every female scientist, lawyer, politician, engineer, doctor and probably more would be 'gender nonconforming' according to gender norms of the past.

Eddie Izzard because he went from being a man who wears a dress as a form of expressing himself - a great role model - to describing himself as genderfluid and coming under the transgender umbrella term, and advising he doesn’t mind “he” or “she”.

He is transgender by the Stonewall definition, but he could have continued to be a beacon of non-conformity for men and told them to stick it, instead he went down the Stonewall path.

The fact that kids could be transed so young that they are literally physically incapable of orgasm is one of the greatest evils. To actually deprive a person of their normal sex life before they can possibly comprehend it is one of the worst kinds of abuse.

Should say Eddie Izzard doesn’t count because

Based on appearance/attitude in a male dominated industry, I'd say

Chrissie Hynde
Tracy Chapman
Skunk Anansie
Patti Smith
Grace Jones
Janis Joplin

But then you have other artists/inventors/business tycoons/scientists/authors/architects, whatever who carve their own niche and image is irrelevant.

I've seen threads about Dolly Parton on here, for example, citing her as a female icon for all that she has achieved. Does she conform?

Are you sure these people would agree they are gender nonconforming? Or is this list built on assumptions based on how they look?

There are a fair number desperate inclusions on here.

Chrissie Hynde
Based on appearance? That's just daft. About half the young women I was at university with looked like that.

Janis Joplin
Again based on appearance Janice Joplin was a very feminine women.

Everyfemale scientist, lawyer, politician, engineer, doctor and probably more would be 'gender nonconforming' according to gender norms of the past

Exactly.

David bowie

Having sex with underage groupies is "gender non- conforming" ?

Are you sure these people would agree they are gender nonconforming? Or is this list built on assumptions based on how they look?

It's not clear what it's based on.

What on earth is "gender nonconforming " about Beth Ditto? In public she is always in dresses, often short and/or low cut with lots of make up. Or do you just mean grossly obese and doesn't care?

Or Claire Balding? By that token most of the women in my local Waitrose are "gender nonconforming"

Or Katie Perry's ex - Russell Brand? Based on what? Slightly long hair?

I suppose op meant women who don't look hyper feminine and men who don't look hyper masculine?

Skunk Anansie is the band, the gorgeous singer is Skin/Deborah Dyer.

Gender non conforming. It’s a bit wierd isn’t it? Sort of suggests that there’s a way to present your gender that is wrong, when of course really there isn’t.

The fact that kids could be transed so young that they are literally physically incapable of orgasm is one of the greatest evils. To actually deprive a person of their normal sex life before they can possibly comprehend it is one of the worst kinds of abuse

Is this actually true? Because if so, it's beyond disgusting.

A child who starts puberty blockers and doesn’t stop them (because nearly all don’t) then goes on cross sex hormones cannot orgasm. How could they? Their sexual organs haven’t matured through puberty. The whole point of puberty is the development of secondary sexual characteristics, enlargement and maturation of sexual organs.

Their bodies are effectively frozen at Tanner stage 2 (look up a pic). A famous American transwoman who has her own reality tv show said, in one of the episodes that she has zero libido. Which makes sense.

So yes it’s true. They have no sexual function and are infertile. This is considered an amazing success because it’s “affirmation”. This is being done to children around the world because they don’t conform with the stereotypical gender norms society attributes to their sex.

The only one I can think of is John Maclean. Very feminine looking but definitely a man.

Dido, regarding Beth Ditto, I guess because she was an out lesbian at a young age, was with her first serious female partner from 18 and was always willing to break the mold creatively and with her appearance and music choices. She was "being a girl" in a different way from a young age, which I think a lot of teen girls would find very comforting and inspiring. She always comes from a very poor background, so she's pretty amazing all round in what she has achieved.

always = also

I was about to say John Maclean. I love him. So beautiful. There are a lot of boys doing makeup and I really love this. It is so not new though, despite the blue haired ones thinking it is. And of course Grayson Perry, he is amazing. I also don’t see Beth Ditto breaking any barriers, she thinks womanhood is all about the feelz, so her view is pretty regressive.

Mary Daly

I guess I just didn't know many larger lesbian nerds who started a group and broke out of their home town. I knew absolutely ZERO out lesbians IRL or in the public sphere and I guess Beth would have been very relatable.

I find this idea of "gender nonconforming" a bit silly.

It strikes me that it's actually a point of agreement between radical feminists and trans activists- both need to identify a list of characteristics which are feminine or masculine.

Trans activists use it as evidence that someone is trans; radical feminists use it for absurd lists like this.

None of the people mentioned are "gender nonconforming" with the exception of Marilyn, Boy George and John McLean.

Everyone else is just people with different style and lifestyle preferences.

I mean who is "gender nonconforming" ? Me permanently in 40s and 50s dresses who has never ironed her husband's shirts or organised birthday presents for her mother in law? Or the many FWR posters who hate dresses and "sparkly pink shit" yet are drained by "wife work"?