James Kirkup, Spectator, 14/06/20

[Melroses]

www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-the-government-s-shift-on-the-gender-recognition-act-means-for-trans-rights

Has anyone read this? I can't access it as I seem to have got myself logged out for the moment.

Usual sensible stuff from James.

Yes. It's good. Mostly just a summary of what was in the Sunday Times and some musing about what Starmer is going to do. Acknowledges the work of WPUK and FPFW as a demonstration of the fact that grass roots activism can be effective.

Thanks I'd missed this. Great article.

I like the lifted piece in red.

Just read it.

It's a good article.

The gist is that the trans lobby overplayed their hand by refusing to engage in civil debate or distance themselves from those TRA's making threats against women who were opposed to self ID. Where they could have used their platform to garner support for better funding and support within the NHS for the trans community they've instead been left empty handed.

He also notes the importance of groups like Fair Play for Women in how quickly and effectively they mobilised to given women a voice.

He also notes the danger to the Labour Party in further embroiling themselves in identity politics and finally states it's not the end of the matter and expects more to come to light especially regarding the treatment of trans children.

Hopefully that's a reasonable summary.

If you see anyone trying to suggest that raising doubts about self-ID means you’re in the same bracket as red-faced thugs who fight the police and urinate on a dead hero’s memorial, ignore them. Defending women’s rights to speak and have their own safe spaces has nothing to do with statues.

The attached screenshot is a twitter post from the new CEO of Stonewall.

Ova

The activists do a really good job of proving his point don't they?

Yes they do and this new CEO is really doubling down.

Kirkup writes
"I really wish the timing of this report was different"

Apparently Liz Truss wanted to press ahead with this months ago, but Johnson & Cummings wanted to sit on it.

I know that Kirkup has been brilliant on this, but I wonder what he means by 'low-key procedural issue'. The erasure of women was never going to be just that.
I wish journalists would now take a closer look at the background and events leading up to the GRA consultation, the individuals who were invited to give evidence, and what was left out of the committee reports.
It's a steaming pile of shit, and there are lessons to be learned.

Yes I agree. They need to look at the institutional capture behind it as well as just what happens going forward.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3541908-Regulatory-capture

I wish journalists would now take a closer look at the background and events leading up to the GRA consultation, the individuals who were invited to give evidence, and what was left out of the committee reports.
It's a steaming pile of shit, and there are lessons to be learned

Spot on but I'd also like to add how TRA's were allowed to hijack the consultation with mass automated responses.

It wasn't a secret - they were openly bragging on SM that they were doing it with links to pre-filled questionnaires and how to submit multiple responses.

Absolutely Ova.

Lisa, formally known as a man back when women were people he didn't really notice much other than when he wanted a shirt ironed and his tea on the table sets off to tell the feminists that things are going much better now. She's transitioned and fancies a bit of the feminist malarkey friends in her new identity, and gosh weren't men chauvinistic in the olden days

YOU COULDN'T MAKE IT UP

Indeed. Lisa my arse.

The organised trans rights groups also failed to distance themselves from the online hate-mongers who do trans people a huge disservice by bombarding dissenting women with obscene abuse. Those trolls, who will of course be furious about the government’s plans, should know they have done as much as anyone to bring this about

I especially like this bit.

Every important Government consultation gets campaigning groups trying to get people to send in cut and paste responses. I too have worked on government consultations, and all we did faced with this was to count and file/bin them, and even to treat the number with scepticism because we assumed people were writing in more than once under assumed names.

I think Woman’s Place UK and FairPlay for Women played a blinder in carefully explaining the issues to people but then encouraging them to write in using their own words and making their own points. It makes it much more powerful than identikit responses. I believe an earlier leak from the government about the consultation said it had received loads of identical responses from a few university towns and abroad - and then individual, thoughtful responses from women of all ages and from all over the country. It’s not a numbers game.

TRA's were allowed to hijack the consultation with mass automated responses.

This was referred to in the article. I was surprised that 70% of the responses were supportive of self ID - but then they identified that this was due to the above.

The difference between this kind of response and those of women desperate to keep our single-sex spaces and rights must have been stark.

The difference between this kind of response and those of women desperate to keep our single-sex spaces and rights must have been stark.

Hopefully it was - I remember spending hours filling in that bloody questionnaire

People also had to respond in their own name I recall. I don't believe it was anonymous.

It won't have been difficult to work out roughly what percentage of that 70% was male, even accounting for some ambiguity.

I'd be interested to know what the sex difference in the 70% vs the 30% was. I'll bet they skew in different directions. We can see just on social media just how many woke bro's are really into this singular, niche area of 'women's' rights.

Thanks - I managed to get in eventually but really appreciate everyone's take on it, especially the bit about the chauvinistic days from Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel which passed me by on first reading.

(I would appreciate recipes, as I have 3 running about the garden atm)

Have emailed Keir Starmer, Baroness Nicholson and my female Conservative MP.

This campaign was hijacked by males and lobby groups that pushed children into submitting responses.

It was a slog. We constructed well thought out arguments, campaigned on the streers, spoke to ordinary people out there, rallied support from our friends, families, co-workers, to submit meaningful responses, through the eyes of the women this impacts, from our collective years of actually being female and we refused to give an inch. I'm so bloody proud.

Thanks James, as ever.

The gist is that the trans lobby overplayed their hand by refusing to engage in civil debate

I think this just shows that ultimately using emotional blackmail instead of proper argument is very effective at shutting people up it does have its limitations.

If they'd been prepared to engage in constructive debate they would never have ended up in the nonsensical position of insulting women by telling them that a man with a beard and full tackle is actually a woman. Or that it was fair for boys to take away sporting prizes from girls.

Many lessons to be learned.
Will Keir Starmer finally come off the fence?

Will Keir Starmer finally come off the fence?

I don't think it's as big a problem as is made out. He can talk about "consensus" and the "need to see all sides" and maybe allow Labour MPs a free vote on the issue. Tory MPs will pass through any changes to the legislation anyway so it doesn't even matter. After that the issue is effectively parked. With the increase in the polls the front bench can sense the possibility of victory - they can't going to throw that away to defend rapists being in women's prisons. Lisa Nandy just got herself in a mess she didn't quite know how to crawl out of - I don't see her not toeing the party line.

The Sunday Times article hasn't even trended on Twitter for most of the day - the majority of people won't even know what's happened.

I struggle to believe that talk of consensus will suffice for TRAs, Stonewall etc, especially if Scotland push on.

@EwwSprouts

I struggle to believe that talk of consensus will suffice for TRAs, Stonewall etc, especially if Scotland push on.

Of course it won't. This is winning one chapter only. They'll continue.

The Spectator also published a good article the other day from Alex Massie about the J. K. Rowling business
www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-the-cancelling-of-jk-rowling-is-really-about