What is the escape ramp for our young women?

[BuzzShitbagBobbly]

Something someone said about providing an "escape ramp" got me thinking.

We can all see how the gender extremist tide is turning. It may be slow, it may be maddening, but it is turning.

So how do we pave the way for our young women to step back in a safe, supported way. With no worries about "I told you so!", or being ostracised from the glitter family or "cancelled" etc. We must not underestimate how hard it will be for a lot of them to about-turn from a movement that has been a major part of their lives and identity for a long time.

Obviously we have the public/vocal desisters, but on a more day to day basis?

What do you mean Buzz?
Are you talking about girls and women who have been outspoken in supporting TWAW? and how they might safely change their minds?

God I would hope that no-one who has put thought into this would cancel anyone.
I have said elsewhere here, that I suspect I would have been in the "kind brigade" 20years ago.
So I'm not going to condemn anyone for having been coerced into collusion.

I mean the people they turn away from, not those of us welcoming them back.

We've seen how the extremists will attack in an instant (I have been scanning Jameela Jamil's tweets today - she is the queen bee of nasty attacks while simultaneously being an icon of the movement).

I vaguely remember how hard life was to navigate as a teen and I expect it is light years away from that now (worse).

They are effectively leaving a cult. We know how cults react when challenged. We have to give them a safe way out and help them.

Society is very polarised atm, so we need to keep talking. We have to be able to disagree and change our minds, because we dont just benefit ourselves, we also model that for others.
We've lost sight of the fact that puberty is a tough time, and we don't really offer any guidelines or support for getting through it. Teenagers are pretty much left to get on with it. Its a time of immense change, for preparing to leave home, for exploring ideas outside of the ones we've grown up with.

I think we need to find as much common ground as we can. Josie Long and Grace Petrie are two young (to me) women who are currently full TWAW, but I expect that both us and them want gender nonconformity to just be accepted without any issues. The only essential difference being whether we believe it's possible to change sex or not.

And given one based most of her last show on having had a baby and the other is a lesbian, they are both fully aware that sex is real.

I am quite combative, but do feet there must be more common ground really than differences.

Just as a general thing, we can encourage people to take The Freedom Program, learn the red flags of abusive relationships, and learn cult tactics; then they can join the dots in their own time.

They are slowly changing their stance.

First we had #nodebate and they have completely dropped that now.

Then we had sex and gender mean the same but now many are stating that sex and gender are different.

I don't think it will be an abrupt U turn, I think there will be more reasoned discussion which will enable people to agree certain points and further dilute the extremism. At least I hope so.

@testing987654321 i tried engaging with the latter but she's not pleasant. Although i met them both prior to this and thought they were nice, if a bit slogany and narrow in their thinking. They both have a lot invested in transgenderism as an ideology and in getting on well with old lefty men like Billy Bragg who have their own misogynistic agenda in supporting transgenderism. (Men are always at the top of the pyramid when you strip it back, aren't they?! Makes me think of Kimmy Schmidt in the bunker).

It is a cult, but no-one leaves a cult until they're absolutely resolved to. It has to come from within. They're grownups, they've got to make their own way in the world.

Teenage girls are different in that they're experts at creating their own tribes and resisting authority passively and that will serve them well as we come out of this - provided they still have the space to do so and the law on their side.

Apologies in advance if this posts without paragraphs. I'm posting from the app and it often deletes my formatting.

My SIL is 110% a #bekind libfem TRA. She calls herself a feminist and maybe she is, it's not a protected term after all. But in the last few debates I've had with her she's argued for the following positions:

• women abuse men just as often and as badly as men abuse women
• we need consent contracts to stop the epidemic of women falsely accusing men of rape
• women are unfairly favoured by family court and F4J is a good and necessary organisation
• women can and frequnelty do rape men
• most of the women she knows are apparently 100% in conformity with female gender stereotypes and this proves that that gender is innate and being "cis" is a real thing
• there is no such thing as the gender pay gap because its all down to women just choosing to go part time or be SAHMs.

Her "feminist activism" seems to comprise of occasionally buying her neice books about "princesses who save themselves" and "calling out" every woman she knows who doesn't put male feelings first "because that's treating men and women equally".

Now, the eagle eyed among you will have noticed that this version of feminism looks curiously like men's rights activism. I've concluded unfortunately that she actually just really doesn't like women very much and this current flavour of Liberal feminism is a really good way for her to act on her contempt without having to introspect on her feelings or even acknowledge that she holds them. A way for her to exercise her misogyny whilst still validating her identity as a good kind person.

I don't think there's any escape ramp for people like her because any such ramp would have to lead from a position of centering men to a position of centering women. Even if she did change her mind on the TRA stuff I don't think it would be over a new found concern for women. More likely she would need a new group of vulnerable males to protect in order for her to jump ship. I think the best we can hope for unfortunately is that the next generation of transwomen - the ones who are currently transitioning as children and almost certainly are motivated but homosexual type disphoria rather than heterosexual type autogynaphilia, are also affected in some way by the current TRA discourse and chose to stand in significant numbers with GC feminists. Then I suspect she would see that group of males as more vulnerable than the group of males she's currently protecting and align herself with them instead. But one thing I doubt she and her kind will ever do, is stand with women against men.

Grace Petrie is unpleasant, extreme hard left incapable of seeing any other point of view or tolerating any divergence of opinion.

Petrie no doubt pontificates about diversity and inclusivity when she is actually part of group of hard left who are very happy to curtail free speech.

She's also a less than mediocre musician.

She sounds a delight By.

I think if they do have a change of heart all they could do is go quiet. A kind of ghosting of the community.

Since tweeting in favour of JKR and then making a pathetic u-turn, Jonathan Ross has been completely off twitter. He didn't come back and show sympathy for her after her essay or to denounce The Sun.