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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The lack of XX people given a platform to talk about how trans ideology affects women

18 replies

Wishingstarr · 11/06/2020 00:49

With the whole JK Rowling saga it's amazing how those talking about it all publically are all XY bioloy. Whether choosing to live as men or women those are the voices that get the most exposure. Or younger female voices who have been carefully vetted for their views.

There is never someone walking around asking the general public and especially women over 30 "do you think biology exists?" "do you think penises can be female?"

The incredible silencing and the lack of hearing ordinary women's voices I find highly depressing.

Even my own 17 yr old dd told me recently that she doesn't agree with the trans ideology regarding transition. She realised how much she has changed since middle school and can see how dangerous making permanent decisions would be.

I find the ignoring of the vast majority of women (and men) on the issue incredibly revealing and not at all surprising.

The willingness to demonize JK Rowling because she is the only women brave enough to talk about this (probably because she is rich enough to afford body guards - no joke) so depressing.

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Doyoumind · 11/06/2020 00:53

Twas ever thus.

There are a lot of allies on the 'other side' of the debate who only get their information from males. It would be laughable if it weren't so fucking depressing.

LockdownLump · 11/06/2020 00:56

Agreed. Feeling absolutely deflated all day today.

I absolutely adore her for not kowtowing, but in my line of work, where TWAW, I am scared to lose my job.

OccasionalKite · 11/06/2020 01:02

I think it is encouraging that JK Rowling is speaking out. She is bringing this whole debate into daylight and investigation.

Wishingstarr · 11/06/2020 01:09

It just seems like major media: Twitter, BBC, The Guardian (no fan of any of them) are all captured to just parrot the trans ideology line and have to work hard to completely ignore biology.

What a complete joke.Sad

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OccasionalKite · 11/06/2020 01:20

The major media that you quote, are run by men - so no surprise that they are prioritising male feelings, never mind how unlikely and ridiculous, over the living fact of being born female and growing up female.

Itsmemaggie · 11/06/2020 01:32

I’m coming increasingly round to the view that there are deliberate tactics at play to stop young women from listening to older women’s views and experience on this matter.

It’s the weakness of the liberals, the need to believe in and support the underdog, to give the minority a voice and the Trans community are a minority who do need a voice, but so do women and at the moment we’re not being heard due to all the shouting.

Wishingstarr · 11/06/2020 02:09

Women are not a minority! Women are also not viokently attacking trans people.

The false narrative of TERFs is DARVO.

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Wishingstarr · 11/06/2020 02:11

I would also love to know of any major media outlet (not small independent) owned and controlled by women.

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DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 11/06/2020 02:44

I’m coming increasingly round to the view that there are deliberate tactics at play to stop young women from listening to older women’s views and experience on this matter.

In a world where gender stereotypes are ever more rigidly enforced and young women are expected to attain a level of grooming and surface attractiveness in order to meet unrealistic standards of beauty, I believe the growing divide between older women and young women is deliberate.

You unmoor young women from the experience of older women by telling them the only thing that matters is their attractiveness to men. They see older women struggling to manage careers and children and caring for their elderly and living in poverty as they age, (older women is the fastest growing category of the homeless).

They desperately want to believe that it will be different for them; that it’s because older women have failed in womaning. And while those young women are young and childless, they are doing well. Their careers progress, men pay them attention, because as young women they have utility for men.

Older women are their worst nightmare. Men dislike or ignore us. No amount of grooming or desperate surgery will disguise the decades. The struggle of being carers is obvious. This mightn’t have mattered during second-wave feminism: we looked at the generation before and saw fierce, brave women who were going to make things better. But now high profile women are more often to be seen centring men or enduring hideous abuse in social media if they are apostate.

Today’s young women are so afraid of being women they are mutilating their bodies to avoid being adult females. They are groomed to believe a life as Kylie Jenner is to be desired. That how they look is more important they what they think or what they can do. The boys who court them are soaked in porn; capitalism pushes constantly to further consumption of makeup and fashion and beauty services. Social media gives them impossible role models created by photoshop; their bodies are celebrated for how close they come to an unattainable and constantly changing ideal. The body positivity movement has morphed into an unhealthy cult and sold out for profit, (Dove anyone?).

Older women are the mirror which shows only struggle and deterioration for young women who have been taught from childhood that only their appearance and willing sexuality matters to the world. Unless, of course, they are too willingly sexual. No wonder young women, like poor Emma Watson are wiling to throw older women under the bus in the hope that by covering their eyes, the reality of being a woman will pass them by.

I am so desperately sad for the young, who are tossed into a world that is very dangerous for them, before their wings have even started to dry.

Wishingstarr · 11/06/2020 03:17

I dunno. Neither of my teens 19 & 17 are boy centered at all. Neither of them have boyfriends and they are not bothered. They don't usually wear makeup and are athletic. They like guys but they don't feel as if they need them for an identity.

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merrymouse · 11/06/2020 03:20

I can think of about 5 female journalists who have written about this subject over the past few years, but I think they aren't saying much at the moment because whenever they mention the subject they get loads of abuse and they probably feel worn out. They don't want to fan the flames and are waiting to see if it will blow over.

However, if it gets to the point where people seriously start to 'cancel' JKR, I think her supporters, both male and female will get a lot more vocal.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 11/06/2020 03:31

Wishingstarr - do you think being athletic might be the magic. Being in their bodies and appreciating their function rather than their appearance.

If I had one wish for young people, it would be to get them and moving in space, away from screens and social media.

Wishingstarr · 11/06/2020 04:49

I don't want to mislead, they are avid instagram consumers but the eldest is very interested in becoming economically independent and number two want to be a surgeon.

Yes, I do think athletics protects them and helps them have positive relationship with their bodies. They like to be strong and admire women who are athletic. They also have a diverse group of friends who have very different concepts of beauty because they reject and are rejected by dominant ideas of beauty.

I like Lizzios comeback when she said she always worked out but not to attain anyone else's idea of an ideal body.

I think a lot of young women are rejecting the narrative they know serves men.

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Ifonlyus · 11/06/2020 07:55

DancelikeEmmaGoldman Great Post.

I have teen DDs and it always feels like a fine line they read. They are deep thinkers, read things I send to them and have spent their whole lives hearing me point out the unique struggles women have throughout life. But they are also normal teens of their time and they have unfettered access to YouTube, Instagram, in future maybe twitter, where the ignorant and unqualified are given a platform to spout what they like. I could how they could perhaps be swayed in other directions by popular opinions.

I followed the trail of a young woman forcefully riling against JK Rowling to her Twitter followers. Turns out they're a freelance writer. Turns out they wrote about giving advice to young people on matters including sex. Turns out they have written a book on mental health. They've no qualifications beyond an English degree from a posh uni. Their big break came on the back of them having a twitter/Instagram following and editors contacting them asking them to write something.

This is one example of the type of person who is given the ear of my daughters and I don't like it. It is dangerous. I counter as much as I can.

One thing that has been so useful is having them watch the Back in Time series on BBC, which is a an easily accessible social history programme They conclude for themselves how recently women have been discriminated against and struggled against patriarchy.

HavelockVetinari · 11/06/2020 07:58

It's the reason Glinner and Harry the Owl are so vocal - they recognise this is women's issue but quite frankly we need them to get involved because the media won't give a voice to women as easily as it does to men.

Ifonlyus · 11/06/2020 08:01

Sorry I went slightly off on a tangent with regards original post.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 11/06/2020 08:55

Yes. We're also working with some appalling misunderstandings that are now taken as fact. 'Sex is complicated' being a major one, 'sex is a spectrum' and 'there are more than two sexes'. People seem to have really bought this in its entirety. I mean, people on Twitter, anyway.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 11/06/2020 08:56

Sorry, OP, that wasn't much of a response to your original post. The fact that it's all XYs talking tells us a great deal about the state of misogyny today.

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