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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Define Trans in this whole Jkr-dr debate

27 replies

sourcreamnchives · 10/06/2020 13:50

Hi feminists 💪
So I consider myself and always have done a feminist. However, I have a gay son and so am very tuned into the whole LGBT ideology. I would never go to countries, for example, whose whole ideology is based on female suppression and oppression. I would not pay into their economies. For the same reasons I avoid holidaying in countries whose stance on being gay is at odds with our own. There are so many layers to peel off (and potentially to make your head explode) in this GC debate I almost don't know where to start. But I have been reflecting this week on how I feel about what DR said (lots of expletives in here - I am fully behind JKR). Having been very vocal myself about the sheer unfairness and utter disrespect to women athletes when allowing trans men to compete against them (but that's a whole other arm of this debate) this week's debates have forced me to examine many of the other contentious issues and opposing viewpoints.
I firstly have to separate however what we are talking about in this debate. Trans women who have had surgery and live as women - and those who have not (and many who have never intended to but live as women). If you said the first category 'is a woman' I would agree. I would also not mind or care/feel uncomfortable undressing in a changing room with them or being in the same hospital bay. However, the same cannot be said for the latter group. And those, in my opinion, are not women. Does this mean then that by accepting the first category as women I am essentially betraying my own sex? I can't see that. But I can see it relative to the second category. I feel they are two very different angles. But maybe I am naive. I just know how I feel. From a completely different angle - if women have a culture - which of course they do - how is it ok to say AWAT when that ridiculous white woman who decided one day she felt like 'becoming a black person' and proceeded to physically change her appearance to then say she was black - caused understandable uproar. So that's not ok. But saying you are a woman because you feel like one is? Please understand I am playing devil's advocate here to test theories. Can ppl please separate out (if this is possible) how they feel about trans who have completely transitioned and those that have not and maybe will not. Interested in all your views.

OP posts:
MoleSmokes · 13/06/2020 22:17

BabyLlamaZen - there is tons of research going back decades.

Try these for starters - you can follow the trail back in time via the references:

"The Controversy Surrounding The Man Who Would Be Queen: A Case History of the Politics of Science, Identity, and Sex in the Internet Age"
Alice D. Dreger, Arch Sex Behav. 2008 Jun; 37(3): 366–421
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170124/

"Proposed DSM-5 Revisions to Sexual and Gender Identity Disorder Criteria"
American Medical Association (AMA )Journal of Ethics
Robert Marvin, MD, August 2010
journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/proposed-dsm-5-revisions-sexual-and-gender-identity-disorder-criteria/2010-08

"Disorders related to sexuality and gender identity in the ICD‐11: revising the ICD‐10 classification based on current scientific evidence, best clinical practices, and human rights considerations"
World Psychiatry. 2016 Oct; 15(3): 205–221.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5032510/

Or for lighter reading:

"Transgenderism: a fetish that got out of hand?"
JO BARTOSCH, Spiked, 10th December 2018
www.spiked-online.com/2018/12/10/transgenderism-a-fetish-that-got-out-of-hand/

NSFW
Reddit: "It's a fetish"
"Here we document examples of autogynephilia, autoandrophilia, and autohomoeroticism in relation to transgenderism. We discuss these examples from a Gender Critical / Radical Feminist perspective."
www.reddit.com/r/itsafetish/

NaturalBornWoman · 13/06/2020 22:50

I have a gay son too. T has nothing whatsoever to do with LGB, in fact quite the contrary T is homophobic as it denies same sex attraction (although gay men do not suffer as lesbians do because men). I have no issue being fully on board with LGB rights and a gender critical feminist and he’s 100% supportive of my position and a great ally. I don’t accept that there is any way of being a woman other than being born female and I won’t use any term that includes the word woman to describe someone born male. My stance has hardened over the past few years as I’ve learned more and seen more and more clearly that this is a men’s rights movement.

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