Gender recognition laws could be extended to children and non-binary people in Ireland

[stumbledin]

A 15-page policy paper produced by Fine Gael recommends a number of reforms to the Gender Recognition Act 2015, including a reduction in the minimum age to apply for a gender recognition certificate from 18 to 16, the Irish Independent reports.

The report proposes that non-binary people, who do not identify as men or as women, should be permitted to mark their gender as “X” on official documents, following countries such as Germany, Denmark and Canada.

It also recommends that under-16s should be allowed to seek a gender recognition certificate through another mechanism where they have parental consent.

irishlegal.com/article/gender-recognition-laws-could-be-extended-to-children-and-non-binary-people

Oh for crying out loud.
Bloody Regina Doherty floating along on the woke-boat.

"Legal rights group FLAC is supportive of the proposed changes, and said at the time that the measures “will go a long way to addressing the barriers to living with dignity for transgender children”. "

Transgender children .....how could you justify this, whilst simultaneously having any knowledge of child physical or psychol-social development? Not possible.

Any child of mine is free to play with their gender expression, right up the point where they are 18, at which point if they wish to change their apparent legal gender, "off you go darling, with my blessing".
Not beforehand though.
Bonkers.

I am so so so angry about this- I work in the field of adolescent mental health and it is deeply immoral to go along with the notion that changing your gender somehow resolves all issues.
It doesn't.

The report proposes that non-binary people, who do not identify as men or as women, should be permitted to mark their gender as “X” on official documents, following countries such as Germany, Denmark and Canada.

And again they bring Germany into it, when in fact the X on German documents refers solely to intersex people, not gender identity.
However: I don't know about Denmark but I'm willing to bet that with Canada, it's about identity.

I just checked the non-binary ‘X’ option in Denmark.

It is true, that anyone over the age of 18 can have the sex marker in their passport changed to an ‘X’.

However, passports aren’t used in any ‘official’ capacities. In Denmark everyone is given an official identity number at birth, a bit like the National Insurance number In the UK, except allocated at birth.

These numbers end in an even number for women, and an odd number for men. These numbers are then changed if some legally changes their gender. -that is what it means to change gender in Demark. It does not, e.g. mean someone gains access to sex-segregated services for the other sex.

There is not a neutral option for non-binary identity numbers, even though a person may have changed their passport marker.

Passports are used so rarely within Denmark, that it seems a bit meaningless to change the sex-marker.

This is evidently different to what Fine Gael have in mind.

This is more of the 'doing it quietly' stuff. Covid aside, I spend time every day outside the primary school talking to other parents at a school in an area with the full spread of families - locals, immigrants from all over, rich, poor and everything in between.

None of us agree with transing kids - we all know where babies come from, we're all very aware of the history of Ireland and the abuse of women, and how careful we have to be around safeguarding. Forward looking, but aware of how we got here.

I've read all their SESE stuff, the bullying policy, and it's very clear and sensible.

Beggars belief. This obsession with 'gender'.

Why would your beliefs be recorded on your passport? Your religion is not recorded on it.

Why would your lifestyle be recorded on your passport? Your hobbies are not recorded on it.

Is there any public consultant

This report makes it look like it's going to be hitched to more popular waggons - rainbow zebra crossings, gay men being able to give blood etc

amp.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-seeking-law-change-to-let-under-16s-legally-change-gender-39252644.html

'It is deeply immoral to go along with the notion that changing your gender somehow resolves all issues.'

Very well said. What a total disgrace. Safeguarding of young people out the window for the sake of woke points. Shame on you Leo, and on everyone who supports this

non-binary people, who do not identify as men or as women, should be permitted to mark their gender as “X” on official documents,

But the only gender recorded by official documents is where 'gender' is a euphemism for 'sex'.

People who identify as not being of either reproductive sex class do not need this recognising on their official documentation, unless it's in a footnote clarifying that they don't understand the mechanisms of sexual reproduction.

It's unlikely that anyone who needs to see your passport for official purposes also needs to know that you failed biology.

Woman and man aren't genders, except where gender is a euphemism for sex-class. The binary they think they're not part of isn't sex, and they can't see it because they can't separate gender from sex adequately.

'unless it's in a footnote clarifying that they don't understand the mechanisms of sexual reproduction.'

nice! Wonder if they would go for this?!

is true, that anyoneover the age of 18can have the sex marker in their passport changed to an ‘X’

Maybe because I still vaguely belief that guff on British passports about Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State requests and requires in the name of Her Majesty all those whom it may concern to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance and to afford the bearer such assistance and protection as may be necessary that in the context of a passport and say going missing/ needing help abroad that it might actually be useful to foreign authorities to know if they are looking for a man or a woman.

The under 16 stuff is rubbish but the non-binary stuff doesn’t go far enough. If they are going to take this route then they shouldn’t discriminate against other genders. Official documents should have a code or number or symbol for every different gender, and the ability to include a range of options for those whose gender varies across the day. If you are going to do this then you should do it right! (And show it up for the twaddle it is)

stumbledin

I can't find the policy paper about the recommended reforms, do you know if it is available to read?
Is this the same review group mentioned in this article by Prof Donal O'Shea?

amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/hse-gender-identity-panel-as-close-to-a-farce-as-you-can-get-says-expert-955662.html

From the link you posted I got to the GRA annual report for 2018.

Posted too soon, and found a submission by Prof. O' Shea from April 2018.

An issue with gender is not the same as gender Dysphoria requiring gender reassignment. In our service where over 300 patients have attended we have had 3 individuals who have regretted their gender reassignment post operatively and several who have stopped their transitioning journey at various points. That is not to say they did not have gender issues, rather it was that hormonal and surgical reassignment was not appropriate in their overall situation. This can be as a result of autistic spectrum issues, personality issues or developmental disorders.

It's possible that no non-binary person would ever want to do this, but what happens if you turn up in, say, Saudi Arabia, travelling on a passport identifying you as non-binary? This seems to reduce the usefulness of passports for the original purpose (travelling on them) and might even put a passport holder at risk (certainly there are countries where such a passport could lead to low-level harassment by officials, if nothing worse.)

I’m trying to get me head around what’s happening in Scotland- have they actually legally changed the definition of ‘woman’ (and not, you can’t ask someone to ‘prove it’)?