What's the feminist take on affairs?

[Feathered]

Do you think a woman who has an affair with a married man can be a feminist?
Does it depend on circumstance?
If the woman stays with the man whilst he is living "a double life" for an extended period of time? If he has children etc?
It's a complicated question, I know. There will be lots of different scenarios.
I'd be really interested in finding out what people think.

Tbh, when a man is abusive I think the affair is almost irrelevant, other than the fact that (if discovered) it can often be the catalyst for the relationship ending at last - it seems that women will put up with abuse but not infidelity, which is the final straw. So in a weird way you could argue that the OW has kind of done you a favour in giving you the final push to leave a man you should have left years ago.

I hope that doesn't come across too harsh, just trying to present a different way of looking at it.

@AnotherEmma not harsh at all. I think you're right and I always have done. She HAS done me a favour. And before her, my son did me a favour when he stood up to him. Abuse is a complex thing. I have been deeply affected psychologically, to the point that I felt that I couldn't leave. Living with ongoing gaslighting (for years) makes it hard to believe that the abuse is happening. It's taking me a long time to process what has happened, and I wouldn't ever have really understood before this happened to me. I worry that if he hadn't had the affair I could have tolerated his behaviour for years. When he left he didn't tell me why. So it wasn't the case of the affair being "the final straw" for me. I was in such a state of brain fog that I didn't understand what was going on. So yes - she has definitely, definitely done me and my children a favour.

I did use to wish he would hit me. Because it would make sense of the feeling of unease and threat that I lived with. Then I would have left.

I don't blame the other woman, though. I am fully aware that it is his fault and that I just want to understand her thinking.

I think in a lot of these instances people don't really think much about it at all. Even if they have a sense of unease about it. Most of us have some things we do that make us uneasy, buying iphones, or driving too much, etc but we do them anyway and sometimes we just try not to think about them too much.

A lot of people, especially younger ones, are that way about sexual relationships.

Really sorry this happened to you, OP. As stated upthread, I've been in the position of being the cheated party and I know it feels crap.

But also: I think you're falling into the familiar trap of holding women responsible for being kind and catering to other people's feelings while not holding men to the same standard. Yes, the OW did a pretty shitty thing. But she's not made any committments to uphold your best interests, love or respect you, to protect your family or your feelings. Technically, she owes you nothing. Your husband does!

The other point here, apart from all the other ones mentioned, is that if feminists take a stance that women should uphold moral standards (which is the gist I think), is what does that mean for other countries with much more restrictive moral expectations for women?

She is likely to be his next victim too, I'd bet actual money on that. She behaved badly but likely will pay for it, as the ExH will likely devalue and discard her too.

My take on this from a feminist is about how society enables men to dump their wives and kids, often after the wife has sacrificed her career to care for those kids.

The "nice guy" at my work is like this. Went for a pint with him once and he told me about the daughter he never sees, doesn't pay to support and has never chased contact. The way he describes her mother is textbook for an abusive twat, but he somehow still manages to be the guy everyone thinks so well of! I distanced myself after hearing that, and I still think he's baffled as to why! There is definitely a feminist issue in how society fails to make deadbeat dads accountable.

Drink driving used to be socially acceptable, but a massive public ad campaign changed that. Smoking indoors, too.

Stay strong OP, hopefully one day society will recognize that men like your ex are reprehensible.

So sorry your shitty soon-to-be exH has done this to you, OP. It takes a certain type of very calculating nastiness to actually set up a flat with the OW while still with your wife.

I think I said upthread that the feminist issues for me round infidelity were not about the choices made by individual women, but about the systemic institutional, legal and financial inequalities in marriage (both legal and de facto) which put women as a class in a vulnerable position. And that's jumping out at me again from your post - you're a SAHM, not out of personal choice, but because 2 of your children have special needs and (to use the American phrase) someone has to step up to the plate, and in our sexist society that's almost always the mother.

So you've made huge personal and financial sacrifices for the marriage and for your children (for instance, I bet the money he's spaffed up the wall on the second flat could have paid for a nanny and decent respite care for you and your children) - and the fact that the system is set up to condone this, and that he'll probably manage to evade a lot of his financial responsibilities towards you and the children - that most definitely is a feminist issue.

His OW? Not so much. She's a arsewipe on an individual level (she can't play the "he never told me" or "he told me his wife didn't understand him" cards in these circumstances). And I don't doubt it will come back to bite her in the arse. He's demonstrated he's a very nasty piece of work indeed - and she's going to be the one stuck with him.

Thank you for taking the time to answer.

You've really helped to clarify my thinking on all of this. I'm hoping I can come out of this okay financially, so I can rebuild my life as best as I can. It will be a much better place without him in it.

Helpful to see this in a feminist context, rather than pointing a finger specifically at anyone. I think it's completely right to see the feminist issue more as childcare in a mixed sex relationship. Along with how the domestic drudgery is allocated.

I'm not sure what the alternative is in terms of childcare, when health issues are involved. Unfortunately, I trusted him. I'm going to do everything I can to make sure I'm independent, now.

Thanks @CaraDune and @MyOwnSummer - I'm going to print your posts out. They make me feel like I'm not going mad!

@Artartart

I wouldn't have an affair because I love my partner. But if single wouldn't have a relationship with a married man as I feel it is wrong. Part of that is because i feel enabling a man to check out of his marriage or family life and have casual sex is supporting the patriarchy. It enables men to use women for domestic purposes and raise his family while also having sex with who they want. So overall is bad for women. I feel like that's not overall a popular opinion. That women should be able to do what they want.

that may not be a popular opinion, but I agree with it at least saying it's a feminist issue isn't the first step to condemning the OW as not a good feminist, it's more the first step to understanding why such behaviour is wrong and to be avoided. Otherwise we are in the territory of 'choice feminism'- I want to have sex with that person so I will, it's my choice and I'm a woman so it's a feminist choice No. If you are a feminist you think a bit more carefully before you do stuff

"I wouldn't have an affair because I love my partner. But if single wouldn't have a relationship with a married man as I feel it is wrong. Part of that is because i feel enabling a man to check out of his marriage or family life and have casual sex is supporting the patriarchy. It enables men to use women for domestic purposes and raise his family while also having sex with who they want. So overall is bad for women. I feel like that's not overall a popular opinion. That women should be able to do what they want."

I view this differently. I wouldn't have an affair with an involved (married or in a relationship) man or woman because I want to be part of hurting another human being. Having an affair is enabling any person (man or woman) to check out of their relationship and have casual sex at the expense of their partner. That is the issue to me, it being at the expense of another person, and that is a moral, not feminist, issue.

"Part of that is because i feel enabling a man to check out of his marriage or family life and have casual sex is supporting the patriarchy. It enables men to use women for domestic purposes and raise his family while also having sex with who they want. So overall is bad for women."

What about a man who has an affair with a married woman? What system is he supporting that enables the woman to use the man for domestic purposes of raising or providing for the family (or a mix of both) whist allows her to have sex with who they want. Affairs aren't intrinsically bad for men or women. They're bad for whoever's being cheated on, whoever's trust is being taken advantage of and broken. Whoever's playing their part in the contract of marriage and family life whilst the other breaks there's. And that person can be a man or woman, and the cheater can be a man or a woman, and sometimes both parties are men or both women in gay relationships. That's what makes it moral rather than feminist issue.