Any Transcribers Here? Polly Carmichael re puberty blockers

[rogdmum]

I’d like a transcription of the following recording from the 37 min mark. It’s Polly Carmichael talking about puberty blockers. The sound isn’t great, but I’d like a transcript to have in front of me,

If anyone is able/willing, DM me your rates and we can sort payment? I’ll of course share the transcript here.

Thanks

soundcloud.com/user-664361280/dr-polly-carmichael-developments-and-dilemmas

Sorry about the text mess - phone playing up, but you get the drift

Last October GIDS were reprimanded for describing blockers as a pause button,when they are actually used as a first step on the path to cross sex hormones:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3721138-HRA-GIDS-admit-purpose-of-blockers-is-to-progress-to-cross-sex-hormones

In one of the documentaries from the last couple of years into trans children, I think either Stella O’Malley’s “Trans Children, it’s time to talk, or a bbc newsnight documentary, Carmichael was very carefully choosing her language.

She was asked whether blockers are reversible, and said that puberty would resume if the child stopped the drug. This section came immediately after a discussion of effects of blockers on the brain, i.e. effects other than those directly related to puberty.

So it is technically correct to say that, as far as we know, the puberty blocking effects are reversible, but it is also a lie by omission, when they don’t mention that blockers have other effects, that may be irreversible.

It may have been this one:

That rings true Fallin as Blanchard said the thickening of vocal chords on girls/women is permanent as if surgery has taken place, this is omitted in media or speeches by Polly.

I'm Stella O's/Ollie Lambert's documentary there was a young woman who has been on testosterone but went for a scan and had what appeared to be functioning ovaries but I can't remember how long she had been on the hormone.

If Polly here says they need more research in when to prescribe the hormones/blockers it doesn't sound like there is a considered decision about not doing it at all, just when is the right time.

I feel very strongly that gender dysphoria is not a mental health condition

I guess we're talking about different conditions - one perhaps social where your personality doesn't fit with what's expected of your gender - lots of us here have experienced that; another psychological, e.g. where you've experienced trauma and you're trying to get away from your sexed body; (there's maybe a third in-between these which isn't about individual trauma or psychology but about the problems of coping with puberty in general and feeling uncomfortable with the way society is treating you - particularly for girls); and finally an issue of neurological mis-wiring for genuine body dysmorphia happening in a different part of your brain from the rational thought bit.

These aren't necessarily mental health issues, they're social and physiological.

I still don't think transition is the answer though!

So it is technically correct to say that, as far as we know, the puberty blocking effects are reversible

We know if you stop precocious puberty for a couple of years that puberty then restarts. But do we know if you take them from age 11 until 16 or 17 or 18 that puberty restarts? What about if you got to 16 then started taking cross sex hormones for a year? Or even if you stopped taking them at 14 would you have a normal puberty?

If you each let me know your pet charity, I’ll make donations.

Please don't worry about me, I hardly did anything (it was a pre existing processing chain I use for online lectures).

OK Gronky I added a little bit to OHoly’s to cover you too.

Thanks so much everyone, that was incredibly helpful.

Just in case anyone is interested, STILLTish has done a Twitter thread and blog post:

twitter.com/stilltish/status/1268202980060409856?s=21

gendercriticalwoman.wordpress.com/2020/06/01/tavistock-part-two-clinical-dilemmas/

Thanks, will read.
I've not been able to listen to the recording, but is it likely that this should be "prospective data" rather than "perspective"? It's a type of research that tracks people over time.

"But the truth is we have very little published long term outcome data, and the Dutch really are the only group who have published perspective data looking at the impact of physical treatments, and their data is a heterogeneous group including people of different ages, so those from 12 up until early adulthood."

The more I read and hear from this woman, the more firm my conclusion that she is a dangerous quack.

Pope, quite possible I've made some errors, the sound quality was often tricky. I meant to go back and correct a couple of words I'd misheard but haven't had a minute! Not sure if there was a definitive consensus on reparative/conservative, either?

Gosh, that was difficult to read. It sounds as though she's suddenly baulking at the implications which are being publicly challenged. And at the same time is frightened to go against powerful trans lobby groups like mermaids.

It's all so, 'but on the other hand'.

And yes, as a PP has said, if gender dysphoria is not a mental health condition, and what the hell is it? Is she suggesting it's a rational response to restrictive stereotypes? Because if it's not that, and it's not a mental health condition, and it's not a physical illness, then yes what the fuck is it??

I would love someone to explain that point, Datun. It surely is fairly straightforward? If people are accessing NHS support for dysphoria, I presume it has to be some kind of condition?

'Gender dysphoria is a term that describes a sense of unease that a person may have'

A sense of unease. Seems somewhat vague to me.

'Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness'

It's a 'sense of unease'.

This next bit is from the GIC (Tavistock)

'Gender dysphoria describes the distress experienced by those whose gender identity feels at odds with aspects of their body and/or the social gender role assigned to them at birth. This can be experienced as physical discomfort, and psychological and emotional distress. Social factors are often key in the experience of gender dysphoria.'

So, it's distress. But it's not mental illness.

In what other cases does 'distress' trigger interventions?

Lots of people are 'distressed' for lots of reasons, generally speaking the NHS doesn't intervene to address those reasons.

I don't know much about this area, but I find it really very odd that this one particular instance of 'distress' is not a mental illness, nor a physical one, yet can be treated by the NHS. Especially given the parlous, farcical state of mental health services at the moment - I hear people are getting no treatment whatsoever, even when they're begging for help.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

The closest thing I can think of is something like anorexia, which the NHS describes as: 'Anorexia is an eating disorder and serious mental health condition.'

How is gender dysphoria different?

I don’t believe it is Scrimp ...apart from the stunning & brave factor.

The more I read and hear from this woman, the more firm my conclusion that she is a dangerous quack.
This