The "left wing/ right wing" problem for GC Feminists

[GeordieTerf]

One of the most common accusations thrown at GC feminists is that they are "right-wing". Pink News often associates GC feminists with the Christian right in America, for example. It seems clear to me that these accusations (which are easily disproven with 30 seconds of research) upset quite a lot of British feminists. From my observations, a lot of GC people go out of their way to demonstrate that they're left-wing.

I'm a feminist. I care about the rights, welfare, and empowerment of ALL women. Feminism doesn't belong to the left wing anymore than it belongs to the right wing. It is for the benefit of all women. The loss of single-sex spaces will affect all of us.

I used to be left wing, until I "peak-transed" 5 years ago. This issue opened me up to the undercurrent of misogyny in the left wing. My local Lib Dem candidate told me not to vote for her. She told me that she didn't want my vote, so I didn't give it to her. This experience is mild compared to what the left wing has done to other GC feminists. Basically, the left wing has thrown women under the bus over this issue. I will no longer stand alongside them. I am now a politically-homeless centrist.

I'm not saying that the right are any better. In the long run, they are probably worse for women. However, I do think that right wing women matter just as much as left wing women, and they have just as much right to speak out about this issue.

This is something I've been thinking about for a while now and wondered if anyone fancies having a chat about it? Hence the thread.

I have always been left wing. But unfortunately the left has proved itself to be deeply misogynist. I can't bring myself to vote Tory but I also can't vote labour at the moment

I tend to think the 'right wing' accusation is made precisely because most feminists in the UK are left wing. Diversionary smearing - then we feel we have to prove our leftie credentials, which handily detracts from the fact that people are actively trying to dismantle rights women fought very hard to gain. It's an easy, lazy accusation that mobilises a whole mob before you can say 'political purity

Scrimpshaw

I absolutely think this is true. It is a smear tactic which sucks all the oxygen up as bone fide left wing feminists defend themselves against laughable charges they are 'right wing.' Or illegally fraternising with 'right wingers'. It's the same old playlist. Distraction. Demonisation. Guilt by association. And the totalitarian impulse to silence dissent. Bait. Switch.

I feel that the UK is in a political wilderness.

I feel that the world is in a political wilderness, to be honest. Neo-liberalism is teetering under the weight of unsustainable growth. Globalism can't continue as it is.

On a good day, I wonder if there's a chance for something new to grow out of the ruins of a post-corona landscape. But most of the time, I think we're too oblivious to the ever-accelerating threat of climate change, and it's too late.

the whole party political spectrum has shifted to the right - has it, though? Labour abolished the £10k tax band, and embraced neo-liberalism. The Tories have been steadily cutting any tax breaks and making it harder and harder for working people to get by. The entire system seems to be about funnelling more and more money to the super-rich - I don't really think this is 'right-wing' so much as vampire capitalism.

Or illegally fraternising with 'right wingers'.

This tends to have the opposite effect to the one intended, at least for me. I'll fraternise with whomever I damn will please, tedious internet wokescolds.

Would be great it I could type properly today, doesn't seem like it's going to happen so apologies for my many typos.

Left and right are generic descriptions related to sets of general underpinning beliefs. Not to the particular parties in power at the moment in the UK.

Feminism is for all women. It also has a lot of different flavours and aims that don't always agree with each other. That's not a surprise given the different lives, situations and priories of women across the world.

The reason GC feminists are linked to the Christian right is that in the USA this is shorthand for a certain viewpoint. Anti abortion, racist etc.

The reason women on MN often say they are lefties, and say things like 'I'm a lesbian active in gay rights and feminism for 30 years' is to point out that they are a part of the LGBT+ group, have no problem with homosexuality, abortion etc. And to challenge people to think why a person like that would suddenly turn their back on it all without good reason. To refute the idea that it comes from a right wing religious mentality.

One of the most common accusations thrown at GC feminists is that they are "right-wing". Pink News often associates GC feminists with the Christian right in America,
Long time American lurker here. I have, on occasion, seen right wing American groups/persons cheered on here when they come out with a GC statement. I've assumed that those cheering have usually been unaware that these groups/persons are generally anti-abortion, homophobic and not interested in women's rights in general. So there is a little eye rolling on my part at the cherry picking.

Although I don't generally post here, I would like to thank the members of this group. I've gone from being appalled at the big meanies who won't let a poor trans person pee in peace to gradually having my eyes opened at the shocking ramifications of the many pro-trans policies that are being enacted.

That's what's so funny about the suggestion that the pushback against TRAs is being led from the US - the UK is the vanguard and has been for several years now. If anything things are more likely to go in the other direction in terms of influence.

this tends to have the opposite effect to the one intended, at least for me. I'll fraternise with whomever I damn will please, tedious internet wokescolds

Ha! Prodigal. I think this is precisely the upshot. All this dreary thought crime BS has undermined the whole purity project. It has made people chafe against being scolded. It's created a resentment against the status quo. And the status quo is twenty years of entrenched political consensus BS. And a 21st century identity politics obsession. I am not left wing. But I find allegiance with left wing feminists on freedom of speech, women's rights, and the desire to resist the 21st century orthodoxy, which comes from a political viewpoint which tolerates no dissent.

Feminism is for all women. It also has a lot of different flavours and aims that don't always agree with each other.

You are mistaken. Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women. People who do not agree on this are not Feminists.

Though I don't think even a 2 dimensional political spectrum (with libertarianism and authoritarianism being the other axis) is sufficient for the description of political nuances, the differences between libertarian and authoritarian implementations of feminist goals are also interesting to me. Though I realise 'authoritarian' carries negative connotations, in this sense it more refers to demanding state intervention. I believe each successive wave of feminism (though this too is a blunt description) has become increasingly authoritarian, which isn't to say that is necessarily bad but I think part of demanding the state to intervene to achieve liberation/equity is naive and sometimes paradoxical. It can also be dangerous, in terms of different groups seizing the reigns of a government empowered to be more authoritarian.

You are mistaken. Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women. People who do not agree on this are not Feminists.

I would say the disagreements more revolve around what constitutes liberation and how it should be achieved.

Feminism is for all women. It also has a lot of different flavours and aims that don't always agree with each other

You are mistaken....People who do not agree on this are not Feminists

TehBewilderniss

Can you explain what you mean? GeordieTerf said in her OP that feminists come from a diversity of political viewpoints. An admirably inclusive sentiment. You don't agree?

So there is a little eye rolling on my part at the cherry picking.

It’s not cherry picking though. Different groups can have shared beliefs and vehemently opposing beliefs. Just because you agree with one doesn’t mean you condone the other.

This thought process of “you’re either with us or against us” is part of the purity spiral problem.

Yes, Spartacus, I won't pretend to have a very thorough grasp of political theory! Just that what I see of Tory policies doesn't seem to be 'small state' or what I'd imagine conservative means - it seems to be very strong govt action to actively suck money out of the middle classes, cut out state benefits (I suppose that's broadly 'right wing') and manipulate the market/taxes in favour of global corporations. Labour seem to have done much the same. Is that trad 'right wing'? I usually think of Conservatism in terms of less regulation/lower taxes/less state. But maybe I'm misunderstanding, it's quite possible.

has become increasingly authoritarian, which isn't to say that is necessarily bad but I think part of demanding the state to intervene to achieve liberation/equity is

'Equality' and freedom are mutually exclusive goals. The pursuit of 'equality' means increased state control. It means a burgeoning bureaucracy. The identity politics obsession of the 21st century West leads to the absurd situation where the police are checking Harry Miller's thinking, but burglaries are not investigated. It's a bizarre and dysfunctional dynamic.

All this dreary thought crime BS has undermined the whole purity project. It has made people chafe against being scolded. It's created a resentment against the status quo.

I agree. At a certain point the "who asked you anyway?" impulse overrides the "be nice" one and from there it's hopefully all over soon as far as the wokescolds having any power is concerned.

Just that what I see of Tory policies doesn't seem to be 'small state' or what I'd imagine conservative means

Scrimpshaw

Exactly! There is nothing small state about them. Neither is there anything Conservative about them. Bloody useless.

It seems like every party is variations on the neoliberal theme at this point.

BovaryX, I think equity, achieved at a rapid pace is mutually exclusive with freedom but not necessarily equality. In my understanding, equity is used as a shorthand for equality of outcome and equality as a shorthand for equality of opportunity but I appreciate that others may use the words differently.

Personally, I believe that government is too blunt a tool to achieve true equality of outcome and can, at best, enforce statistical targets which neither help the majority nor achieve lasting change. I find identity politics to be an expression of an attempt to reconcile, by force, contradictory groups of supposed victims.

I just laugh at any suggestion of being right wing (although Im not left-wing) and remind the woke bros that Corbyn and Benn supported Brexit.