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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lachlan Stuart takes down Juno Dawson's Section 28 Claims

14 replies

SunsetBeetch · 24/05/2020 18:01

Original article in the Huffington Post by Juno is here:

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/section-28_uk_5ec69d86c5b6715509a8fa44/?__twitter_impression=true

"Section 28 Messed Up My Generation. I Worry We’re Repeating The Same Mistakes Now
Gay men and women were made out to be threats to society. Trans people like me are facing the same prejudices today."

Lachlan has written an excellent thread here, taking apart Juno's claims:

twitter.com/Lachlan_Edi/status/1264529815530606592?s=19

"Dawson writes for effect not accuracy. The argument here, is that not implementing GRA reform (an extension of rights) is akin to Section 28 (a removal of them). It reveals someone who doesn't understand what happened or doesn't care for accuracy.
t.co/u2Dh73JUmr "

"Dawson was by admission just starting primary school when s.28 came into law. Born in 81, the young Dawson was only 7, not the out and proud gay man he'd become before transition. Citing the 1987 BSAS report of 75% believing homosexuality was always or mostly wrong as evidence .."

"… of that which thwarted Dawson's generation is erroneous. Dawson is simply wrong. The rise in homophobia in the 80s matched the seeping of AIDS into consciousness, not Clause 28. 75% figure dropped in every report following, for full duration of the law's statutory existence. t.co/JxamzPTQSO "

"From 75% a year before s.28 to 69% a year after; 64% four years after; 55% just 2 years after that; 40% by the time the section was finally repealed; A steadily increasing social acceptance of homosexuality, the first reversal signs of which are only just showing now."

"We can leave aside why public attitudes are hardening again now, though I suggest Juno Dawson takes an even longer look in the mirror, but I can say it wasn't s.28 that thwarted Dawson's generation. On the contrary."

"Section 28, with AIDS, galvanised my generation. We mobilise the biggest gay pride protests Britain had ever seen. Hundreds of thousands of us came out and marched, visibly. We 'recruited' Princess Diana as our ally, and we welcomed Elton John and Ian McKellen to the fold."

"We made it better for young gay boys like James Dawson. Do you want to know what Old Compton Street looked like before Clause 28? Here it is in 1985. Apart from Patisserie Valerie and Comptons, you wouldn't know it. Same goes, even more so, for Canal Street. t.co/06Es5QwGHg "

"If Dawson's teachers didn't mention HIV in condom lessons, that was down to Dawson's teachers. Section 28 didn't curtail health education. I shouldn't need to remind anyone who claims to be a rights activist that HIV and AIDS was not limited to the population of gay men."

"But Dawson has form on making up a narrative to suit the agenda. Back in 2014, before transition, the Guardian interviewed Dawson. Then James, it is reported that he claimed that there were no gay role models in 'his' years as a gay teen, the years that were 'thwarted'. "

"Somehow, the young, proud gay man had missed Queer as Folk on Channel 4, in 1998, when 'he' was aged 18. And BAFTA winning My Beautiful Launderette in 1985, before going to school. As young James, Juno found no role models in the Brookside lesbians of 94, or Eastenders' gay ..."

"… couple from 1986-89. No-one to look up to in Bronski Beat, the Communards, Tom Robinson - all out and proud and riding high in the pop charts before the Clause - or Erasure, Ricky Martin, Elton John or any of the groups that came out and succeeded in Dawson's formative years."

"There was nothing for Dawson about gay representations in Hollywood blockbusters La Cage aux Folles, Torch Song Trilogy, As Good As it Gets, Priscilla Queen of the Desert, My Own Private Idaho, Philadelphia, Desert Hearts or Longtime Companion. Nor in popular cartoon Jonny Bravo."

"No, there can't have been because Dawson wants you to believe that Section 28 'thwarted' the generation that grew up with all those mainstream offerings.

It didn't."

"The biggest problem for lots of young gay men is being a closeted, timid, scared, self hating young man, hiding away and distancing themselves from what good there is to offer. I'm not suggesting that was Dawson but it was lots of us. Mind you, read that Guardian interview again."

"Dawson tells a story. Good at that. But it's a fiction.

Clause 28 wasn't as Dawson remembers.

And GRA reform is nothing like it."

OP posts:
SunsetBeetch · 24/05/2020 18:06

twitter.com/HanoverHussy/status/1264578660679417857?s=19

"This is the best thread ever! Juno’s use of “section 28” comes directly from stonewall policy. They use this analogy to get into schools. They talk about homophobic bullying (rightly) then use an analogy of section 28 to justify their huge push to get gender identity into....

....schools, via “queer literature”, gender identity teaching and dubious policies that are now toppling... this tactic was disclosed clearly by Sidonie Bertrand Shelton (schools lead) at a lecture I attended on “queering children’s literature” ...

t.co/d5scITcHYu "

...at Goldsmiths, hosted by Michael Rosen this Feb.
The room was told how section 28 was tactically part of the blurb, capitalising on people’s ignorance of specific details and their want to be “nice and inclusive”. It is specifically how they market themselves as relevant...

.... here is a blog I wrote about it.. t.co/tHixl3qBN6

@sarahstuartxx also wrote an incredible thread about it which I will try and find for you...

Here is the event hitch I think details Sidonie’s abc on using section 28 as an “in”... t.co/8VBArHoNgg "

OP posts:
OP posts:
BitOfFun · 24/05/2020 18:23

Excellent, thank you for posting.

RuffleCrow · 24/05/2020 18:27

I'm the same age as J Dawson and grew up into a welcoming culture for LGB people -eventually. Took a while but certainly by the time i was 17 things had changed hugely.

EmpressLangClegInChair · 24/05/2020 18:31

I came out during section 28 into a wonderful, welcoming lesbian community.

I pity young lesbians coming out now. Stonewall in its current form is more of a homophobic menace than Thatcher ever was.

EverardDigby · 24/05/2020 18:40

Me too, lots of lesbian bars, the women's centre in Holborn, free Pride in Kennington Park, where do young lesbians go now to meet each other in women only space?

EmpressLangClegInChair · 24/05/2020 19:40

I remember the Glass Bar, London Friend....

aliasundercover · 24/05/2020 20:20

Stonewall in its current form is more of a homophobic menace than Thatcher ever was
How shocking and disgusting is that? And how true. Thatcher wanted LGB out of sight, Stonewall want LGB to disappear altogether.

Even as I write that it seemed like hyperbole, I have to remind myself that based upon their words and actions it actually is the case.

FloralBunting · 24/05/2020 20:32

I'm about 5 years older than Dawson. I faced anti-lesbian prejudice from within my family and from peers. I started visiting the gay quarter of my nearby city when I was in my late teens. What actually scared me into the closet more firmly than violence and the disapproval of my mother was a weird combination of self loathing and being terrified of the huge possibilities open to me. I kissed a woman in a club on Canal Street when I was 19 and it was like being shown a huge, wide, beautiful vista when you have spent your life believing that you belong in a cave. I think I thought it would be harder, and I'm not saying the time I was out when younger wasn't hard, but I do think that I did make excuses. I was a teenager mostly in the 90's, and the really hard fought battles seemed to have been in the 80's. It was definitely getting better by the time I was old enough to come out and move away from my toxic home life, but I was a chicken, basically.

Tbh, I actually see loads of that from JD - a successful gay male who perhaps romanticized some of the struggles of people earlier in the gay rights movement, and combined that feeling of missing out with a hefty dose of internalized homophobia. I dove headfirst into conservative patriarchal Christianity, JD decided JD was trans and claimed that most gay men really felt like JD, but it's the same damaging bullshit.

aliasundercover · 24/05/2020 21:41

but I was a chicken, basically

No you weren't. You took a while to rid yourself of the toxic messages you'd been fed when you were young, and you were understandably nervous about moving into a whole new world - that's not 'chicken', that's entirely understandable.
You took decisions and made choices that 90-95% of people never have to face. That seems pretty courageous to me.

SunsetBeetch · 26/05/2020 08:29

Stonewall also rewriting history about Section 28. They really are a disgrace.

"It’s been 32 years since the introduction of Section 28, the devastating legislation banning discussion of LGBT identities in schools. We’ve come a long way since then but there is still more to do to ensure acceptance without exception for everyone in the LGBT community."

twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1264571946236366854?s=19

Lachlan Stuart takes down Juno Dawson's Section 28 Claims
OP posts:
FloralBunting · 26/05/2020 08:55

And all the gibbering homophobes on the thread insisting that 'if trans people had been visible at the time, they definitely would have been a target of s28' while at the same time ranting about how bigoted and privileged lesbians and gay men are for not inferring that the special caste shouldn't be retconned into history. There's even one delightful individual insisting that as a TM who identifies as gay, they are definitely who the retrospective s28 would be against. Even though quite obviously it wouldn't because they are a heterosexual women with a penchant for gay men. I mean, sure, s28 was related to straight people trying to squash homosexual people down, but to do it 30 years later by insisting women on T are gay men is certainly left field.

Trans ideologues are utterly, thoroughly homophobic.

Gncq · 26/05/2020 09:13

When did America first tack the T onto LGB anyway? I'm sure it was after the 80's?

ThinEndoftheWedge · 26/05/2020 15:25

"It’s been 32 years since the introduction of Section 28, the devastating legislation banning discussion of LGBT identities in schools. We’ve come a long way since then but there is still more to do to ensure acceptance without exception for everyone in the LGBT community."

Er... isn’t Stonewall is now banning discussion about same sex aka homonsexual identities?

When was the T connected to section 28?

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