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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"most teachers are women, if they go back to work who will look after their children?"

66 replies

StealthPolarBear · 16/05/2020 16:55

Someone has seriously just asked gavin Williamson that

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Bobbybobbins · 17/05/2020 08:14

My DH works in a very male dominated industry. He is shocked at the number of men who completely wash their hands of any responsibility for childcare. One said 'the kids have had to go to school as the wife is working'. My DH asked him why he hadn't considered that he could look after them for a day or two a week.

siring1 · 17/05/2020 08:14

I never mentioned your grammar.

I pointed out that if you chose to directly quote somebody you should do the honest thing use the words they actually said. To.not do so is lie.

I never mentiobed your grammar.

StealthPolarBear · 17/05/2020 08:16

Bobby what did he say to that?

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Sandybval · 17/05/2020 08:19

Making the sweeping assumptions that most women have children and childcare falls on their shoulders.

This is true though, and for many people it's a huge problem. It doesn't mean that it's right, or that it should be the case, but it invariably is for a lot of people.

StealthPolarBear · 17/05/2020 08:21

If had added in "and given that women, rightly or wrongly, are mostly responsible for childcare" that would have been fine. But the way he presented it was that it was a given that childcare was a woman's responsibility. That may be the case but it shouldn't be and actually it's not for a lot of us.

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ememem84 · 17/05/2020 08:24

I’ve just stumbled across the thread. And I hate the sssumption that men can’t do anything.

Dh has been ill all week. I’ve (luckily) been on annual leave from my wfh. I’ve looked after him, ds and Dd (two under 3) solo while dh stays isolated in bed (he tested negative).

However Dm has commented that it must be so awful for dh (yes) and she’s praying I don’t get it as what would poor dh do. How would he manage? (Eeeerrrrr the same way I did? Where was my sympathy?!)

BeingATwatItsABingThing · 17/05/2020 08:43

Surely the middle of a pandemic would be the perfect time to expect men to step up? These are not normal circumstances. My DH has to be available between 9 and 5 for work. The nature of his job dictates that. As a teacher, as long as I’ve been getting my jobs done, when I do them is my choice. I do most of the childcare between 9 and 5 but DH takes over after and I get on with my work. Although, that’s not too dissimilar to before this time as he has always been an equal parent.

DidoLamenting · 17/05/2020 12:06

Someone has seriously just asked gavin Williamson that

Who asked this and where?

DidoLamenting · 17/05/2020 12:08

Is that sowell as you have it all worked out, I think I'll leave thisthread.manyon here (and apparently on twitter) agree but you've chosen to address my grammar and needle me

The poster you are referring to did not address your grammar.

Devlesko · 17/05/2020 15:48

I'm sorry I really don't get this, and I'm not trying to be stupid, honestly.

How is it a feminist issue, when the children have 2 parents?
isn't it just that we are making it so.
E,g I'm a teacher (not really, well qualified but not teaching), my dh also works full time. We have no childcare due to corona.
We have a conversation where I say, right you need to be at home/ look for another jb/ go pt because I have to work and we have no childcare.
Dh, adjusts his workload accordingly.

If he didn't or wouldn't, that is a dh problem not a societal Feminist issue. I'd have done much better finding a man who shared my views.

Is this not what you are talking about?

StealthPolarBear · 17/05/2020 16:25

This must be me, clearly I am wrong
To my mind this guy said women are the default child carers. As fact. To me, that isn't OK. Clearly I'm missing something.

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Nameofchanges · 17/05/2020 16:33

‘But the way he presented it was that it was a given that childcare was a woman's responsibility. That may be the case but it shouldn't be and actually it's not for a lot of us.’

I understand there’s an important point here about pushing some responsibility on to men in couples.

But do we not talk a lot on here about class analysis? The class analysis is that the vast majority of caring work is done by women, and often those women have inadequate support networks.

It is a bit like saying that we shouldn’t talk about the problems of domestic violence for women, because domestic violence shouldn’t exist, or because some women aren’t experiencing it.

And of course in other ways it is very different, because very many women don’t actually want to make arrangements with men over childcare, don’t live with a man and don’t think childcare is something that can be dealt with in the domestic sphere during a pandemic, because they are used to interdependencies with other households that they have been isolated from in a pandemic.

There’s a tension here between not stereotyping women as primary carers, acknowledging that primary carers are usually women and need support, and recognising that just because a woman has children that doesn’t mean she should have any kind of arrangement with the father.

There is also a tension between recognising that some men could do more and recognising that almost all violent and sexual crime is carried out by men, and that all of those crimes have victims.

No, women should not have all the responsibility for children, because society as a whole has a responsibility. The expectation should not be that women privately negotiate with a father or partner.

StealthPolarBear · 17/05/2020 16:36

The first assumption he made was all women hve children
The second was that women are responsible for childcae

Yes we should address that issue but framing questions in a way that assumes those are the case and does nothing to challenge them is not addressing the issues.
I see it as similar to "most teachers are women. If they all go back to work who will make the husbands' lunches?"
(taking the point the pp made that making lunch is not the same as looking after children, it's the structure of the questions and assumptions made I am talking about here)

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Nameofchanges · 17/05/2020 16:47

I would rather someone raise the issue of women and childcare imperfectly than not at all.

I am sure all the women without children or with a DH who does a load of competent parenting will cope with not being mentioned.

StealthPolarBear · 17/05/2020 16:49

He didn't though! It was a practical question. If he'd said most teachers are parents (may or may not be true) if they return to work who will look after their children? I'd have no issue. Female teachers have been working, who has been looking after their children so far?? But that wasn't the issue for him.

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StealthPolarBear · 17/05/2020 16:52

Please be clear. He wasn't raising women = default child carers as an issue in its own right. Just the inconvenience it will cause if the default child carers aren't about.

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