Intersexphobia - is that a thing now?

[ThePonderer]

I've been sent an email which says on 17 May there will be 'International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia, Intersexphobia and Transphobia'.

I've never heard of this. How can you have a phobia of a medical condition - especially one that is very private? Wouldn't it be like having a phobia of diabetics or people with high blood pressure?

I think it's a good question, and ultimately only those with diagnosed & recognised DSDs can really answer. The only really vile and callous abuse of people who have DSDs that I've seen has been from trans activists online. But it's interesting how none of the LGBTI orgs claiming funding on advocacy for those diagnosed with DSDs ever call out that abuse.

This is what I found from a quick search for intersexphobia.

Intersexphobia and Interphobia are defined as negative attitudes and feelings towards people who are believed to possess biological sex traits that are not typically male or female, known as Intersex Traits (whether they are actually born with them or simply exhibit non-bonary gender identity or expression, which is commonly associated with having congenital Intersex Traits.

Interphobia is evidenced in widespread violence and severe discrimination against intersex people, such the practice of Intersex Genital Mutilation (IGM). IGM is the medicalized effort to eradicate intersex people from society by “normalizing” intersex bodies into more typically male or female bodies in order to maintain sex and gender norms.

www.intersexequality.com/what-is-interphobia/

These two paragraphs seem to be describing two very different things. IGM is obviously wrong - people should only have such surgery if they want it, not because they have been forced to or coerced.

The first paragraph conflates intersex and transgender, and also implies that anyone who, for example, questions whether Caster Semenya is actually female is guilty of intersexphobia. (My understanding is that Semenya has a male intersex condition.)

Intersexphobia has long been a thing. It is the need of the medical establishment to mutilate people, especially children, with a DSD condition in order that the public at large can feel comforted that something outside of the norm has been "normalised".

With this in mind, do a compare and contrast with the affirmation of "trans kids" with confused sexual identities being put on the track to have drug and surgical interventions having lifelong consequences.

I think it's being dragged in as cover for trans yet again.

Intersex Traits (whether they are actually born with them or simply exhibit non-bonary gender identity or expression

Whether they actually really have a DSD, or whether they don't at all but still want to climb into a nice warm bath of someone else's medical diagnosis and settle into a comfortable wank, all the while pretending their oppression and suffering is worse.

To paraphrase a quote.

The biggest culprits for intersexphobia are trans activists.

They appropriate intersex conditions as demonstrating their own incongruity, even though those trans activists have no form of DSD at all, as if the existence of intersex only serves to validate the completely bogus idea that “sex is a spectrum”.

They show complete ignorance of what conditions are intersex, what that means and has historically meant, and think it’s just a word of a singular group.

And they are actively campaigning for the exact opposite of what intersex campaigners have long advocated for: that children need time and maturity, and need to reach adulthood before irreversible hormonal and surgical options are imposed on children.

So I would say yes, intersexphobia is a thing and it’s TRAs who need to stop.

I am not sure that those who operate on babies/children with DSDs are always wrong to do so, any more than it is always wrong, for example, to remove large strawberry birthmarks or address a cleft lip. As I understand it DSDs sometimes create conditions that are easy to fix in the very young but which get harder to treat as the person gets older. I know this assumes that such conditions are regarded as ones that need to be fixed and that some people object to that in principle, but I think that the issues are much more complex than that and that such a position assumes that DSD conditions are neutral rather than abnormal (and/or take the position that we cannot determine what normal for humans is without invalidating the humanness is those that do not fit - another facet/consequence of post-modernist thinking). DSDs may cause physical problems if left untreated. I also don’t think it is unreasonable to consider the mental harm that might be caused by leaving a condition unaddressed (especially one that could have been easily resolved) though I accept that ideally no-one’s mental health should be affected by their bodies. I am not saying that there aren’t more conditions that could be left or that the balance is right - I don’t know enough about it frankly- but that rejecting all interventions is an extreme position not necessarily the moral one.
I am also not sure that trying to tie it in with FGM is helpful.

Thinking about this, am I mixing up physically abnormalities with DSDs? Not sure. Just basing this on a conversation with a surgeon who sometimes has to deal with these issues/advise on these decisions.

The campaign for autonomy regarding surgery has not been focussed on repairing things that can be repaired and improve function and outcome. It has focussed on the historical practice of surgeons deciding that they would be better off making a male appear more like a female (or vice versa but technically less likely) and the child is raised as such and has no say in the matter, and has had to deal with that in adulthood. Once you remove testes, they can’t be put back. There’s no easy answers with it and modern day paediatric surgeons are aware of this and do their best by children in most cases.

But TRAs want kids to be able to access such medical treatment and surgical treatment ASAP. They want a healthy body to undergo medical treatment and when able, surgical treatment.

Precisely, Barracker. Sing along now! One of these things is not like the other, one of these things is not the same...

Whether they actually really have a DSD, or whether they don't at all but still want to climb into a nice warm bath of someone else's medical diagnosis and settle into a comfortable wank, all the while pretending their oppression and suffering is worse.

Oh I like that, it describes things perfectly.

It sounds like a shit day. Homosexuality, Bisexuality, DSD and Transgenderism are four entirely separate things with different needs and concerns, lumping them all togther helps no one.

Oh it's the amusingly named IDAHOBIT again. How soon that's rolled around!

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things is not the same...

That's what really struck me.

Thanks for all the replies - I'd really never come across this term before.

Can we create International Day of Forests, Families and Tuna please?

@TheProdigalKittensReturn I've got that song stuck in my head now

I've a feeling that most people who add the "I" to LGBTI+ have no idea what intersex actually is.

I am not sure that calling things "phobias" is really very useful or revealing in most cases.

Globally, as of 2019, 131 million people are born intersex, that is 1 in 60 people have visible traits documented through medicine at birth. My personal view is the intersex population is much higher at upwards of 5% as not all intersex people can be identified by visibly at birth. Not all intersex people demonstrate traits so that at birth this would be noticed, some do later in childhood or later in life and others never know. Intersex people are stigmatised unnecessarily as it is deemed society would not accept them, I do not feel this is actually the case, I believe individuals would be very welcoming. Intersex people like myself are often misrepresented by the heteronormative- binary view of the world, that there are only two sexes, when there are at least three. Intersex, Woman, Man are three Equal sexes. Intersex is not gender, it is a healthy sex. Intersex people are eradicated and rendered politically invisible, some through unnecessary surgical interventions, others through societal binary gendering, where they are forced to choose identification as a man or a woman. So in answer to your question. Yes, intersexphobia, and genderism are credible and real. Maternity wards and medical practitioners often are aware of intersex people, yet they are informed and trained by gendered institutionalised intersexism by only acting as if the only options are boy or girl. Medicine is informed by a mythology of a science of polarities, it is I'm afraid a fascistic form of social political economic control. That continues to abuse intersex people (previously known as hermaphrodites). Intersex people are wrongly pathologised, shame stamped with ridiculous medical labels all so that socio-political-economic capitalist infrastructures do not have to factor in intersex people as healthy sex. So yes its real and its deeply institutionalised inter sexism. Just like engrained institutionalised racism or homophobia. Its a problem. Now you know, you can work through your own internalised intersexism and educate others to do the same.

There are only two sexes. Only an egg and a sperm can combine to form a new human being. Where exactly is a 'third sex' to be found in humans or any other animal species? What other kind of gamete can be fused with an egg or a sperm to create new life?

People with differences /disorders of sexual development are still either male or female, and some might have fertility or hormonal issues due to their condition. This doesn't turn them into some 'other' category. Actual numbers of people where it is not very straightforward to determine their sex are fairly small.

People can be born with missing limbs or eyes. Doesn't mean there are two types of human beings - ones with two legs and ones with one leg.

Unless there is a life saving medical reason, surgery should not be carried out on the genitals of babies or infants in misguided attempts to 'normalise' them. There is nothing bad or wrong about genitalia that is smaller or larger than average. It still doesn't turn people with DSDs into a third sex. They will still either produce sperm or eggs if their testes or ovaries are functioning, otherwise they will be infertile. Infertility is unfortunate, but doesn't turn you into a third sex.

Oh I think they are redefining the word sex to be context specific.

If talking about none human life forms it means what it always has, biological reproductive stuff

If we talking about Homo sapiens it means something else

Actually when small aDD really struggled with evolution and the fact that humans were a type of animal.

I don't see how anyone can have a phobia of something that can't be perceived when people are clothed, or sometimes not even when they aren't. And lots of people with DSDs don't even know it themselves. This has to be bandwagon stuff, surely, with the TRAs hitching a ride on other people's medical condition?

I'm rummaging around for my supposed "internalised intersexism" and coming up empty. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I just think I'd be aware of an irrational and overwhelming fear if I had one...

I am not sure that calling things "phobias" is really very useful or revealing in most cases.

Agree.

No, intersex is not a sex - there is no third reproductive role and no third type of gametes. I also don't believe the majority of intersex people consider themselves as a third sex, indeed I follow several on Twitter and they are usually very clear about themselves, and people with DSDs in general, still being either male or female.

Nor is it necessarily healthy - while some people may be less severely affected than others, some DSDs such as CAS can "cause serious health issues, such as life-threatening kidney problems that need to be treated as soon as possible" (from NHS website), also many of these conditions (which are a wide range, with different effects and varying in severity) can cause infertility or reduced fertility, with the associated heartache that may involve.

As for "Medicine is informed by a mythology of a science of polarities, it is I'm afraid a fascistic form of social political economic control. "