Fertility Preservation for transgender people

[OhHolyJesus]

In this video from Two Dads, Carole Gilling-Smith compares the preservation of sperm or eggs for trans people to that of cancer patients. She also talks about funding in on the NHS (if they come via the Tavistock) but notes the lack of information on the subject.

Personally I found it odd how she referred to how she talks about whether you make eggs or sperm, so acknowledging biological sex but not using that term, but using gender, (not gender identity).

She says she has seen more trans patients in the last two years.

www.facebook.com/twodads.u.k/videos/345658239749623/?

How would fertility treatment work for the bee generation of trans people though . The ones who have been medicated from a very young age.

Would theyr reproductive systems be developed enough ?

Seems like another way in which older transitioners with all the options and " perks " of having grown up and having the choices , simultaneously advocate for removing it all for children..

TRAs successfully appropriated the NICE guidelines for fertility preservation after cancer diagnosis.

August 2018 NHS was threatened with legal action

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3326933-NHS-told-give-trans-patients-equal-access-to-fertility-service

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3333708-NHS-faces-lawsuit-for-not-funding-fertility-services-for-transgenders-who-want-kids

Fertility treatment for transgender people has been considered and researched. Only adult males who have been through puberty and are not on libido-suppressing hormones can produce gametes easily - they can have a wank. For everyone else it’s invasive:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30219984/?from_term=Fertility+transgender+children&from_pos=1

For those whose bodies have been maintained in the prepubertal state by puberty blockers and cross sex hormones, it’s even more difficult: it would require invasive tissue sampling and would be of questionable quality because one of the main functions of puberty - that has been denied - is to mature the gametes.

But uptake is low, and this is due to cost ( in US clinic), invasiveness of procedures and desire not to delay medical transition:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28363716/?from_term=Fertility+transgender+children&from_pos=2

But does it matter? A survey showed that having children in the future was the lowest priority for teenagers, because everyone knows your view on a possible family is always right as a teenager isn’t it? Most of them would like a kid, think it won’t be a biological child, and are open to adoption, which everyone knows is sooo easy.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30894340/?from_term=Fertility+transgender+children&from_pos=4

This is just utter bullshit. It’s seeking a solution to iatrogenic infertility, when the answer to most people is don’t deliberately make kids infertile in the first place.

Yes how do you reconcile with " they know who they are they wont change their mind they understand the risk of not having children " with " heres fertility treatment info if you change your mind cos changing mind about kids is possible but not about being trans?"

Fertility treatment is expensive and not reliable and it makes "perfect sense" to broaden the possibility of clients paying thousands for something that rarely works or getting funding for it.

As 'fertility preservation' for transgender people by NHS thus far will have been collection & storage of sperm/eggs is it anticipated that NHS will be funding surrogacy for this patient group in the future?

So basically once again it's ok to acknowledge biology when you are rich and want a baby. then it's ok to know what a female is and rent her womb for 9 months

As 'fertility preservation' for transgender people by NHS thus far will have been collection & storage of sperm/eggs is it anticipated that NHS will be funding surrogacy for this patient group in the future?

It would make sense, as NHS in Scotland has funded it for gay men. It would probably be constructed as discrimination on the grounds of gender reassignment.

How does adoption work for trans people?

As in

When people apply and by that I mean everyone who ever applies , dont they back ground check and take into consideration medical conditions and mental illness and as we are constantly told that trans people are at risk of suicide/ self harm etc. Would they actually be accepted to adopt? Especially with the lack of background information obtainable as dont dbs checks rely on the disclosure of previous names?

Is adoption am option?

R0wantrees

is it anticipated that NHS will be funding surrogacy for this patient group in the future?

I had written to my MP about surrogacy and he forwarded my letter to Mat Hancock. Here's his response. I think when we see the words "diverse" and "lifestyle" in the same sentence we know what they are talking about here. And the NHS supports surrogacy.

And no I'm not saying for a second that illness etc should stop someone from being able to adopt . I'm just curious about what the requirements are and whether it would actually be possible, I mean it's a fairly recent thing that gay couples can adopt really ( why a loving family would be rejected for that reason I dont know !) , so are they there with the adoption fight yet or just hoping they will be for these kids today?

It leads me onto the same questions around adoption and surrogacy. Adoption processes are - quite rightly - vigorous and current previous mental health of an adoptive parent is assessed. I'm not sure how likely it is that a trans person would pass that assessment.

As for surrogacy, I'm deeply concerned that this will not only result in an increase in surrogacy arrangements (and the exploitation of women) but honestly that public funding from our health service will be diverted to fund fertility preservation for trans people, particularly after being taken to the brink through austerity and quite likely pushed over the edge following Covid.

I'm strongly against the transitioning of children, in all forms, social, medical or surgical (if you have surgery on your 18th birthday it's legally fine but morally borderline for me). Keira Bell has explained there is a lack of information and if gender dysmorphia consultations don't cover the subject of fertility, then that is a massive and dangerous oversight, but if anyone wants to go through this process is this a fertility issue?

If you are perfectly healthy and fertile but remove your own ability to have children through your treatment of your gender/body dysmorphia at your own request I'm not sure you can call that infertility, it certainly doesn't compare to cancer patients faced with life or death decisions concerning their fertility. I found that comparison insulting.

And of course the worry of the consequeces. If if fails which it does. Alot. Most the time in fact. And they cant adopt. And of course the fact many transmen have hysterectomies young because of the pain and the complications, where does that leave them.

I mean we are constantly told about the high incidences of unemployment and homelessness, so they starting point is simultaneously they will hurt themselves and be homeless and just adopt later. How. How does all of that tie in. Why are we doing this to kids

I watched a bbc thing on this a couple of years back www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-46634595/should-the-nhs-pay-for-transgender-fertility-treatment

And I remember thinking then about the whole, me, me, me, slant to it from the males in the film. The transman in the film disagreed that the NHS should pay for fertility treatment it already provides a lot to transgender patients.

Interestingly the spokesperson for the EHRC referred to young trans patients accepting medical treatment as 'children' (around 4mins 14)

If you are perfectly healthy and fertile but remove your own ability to have children through your treatment of your gender/body dysmorphia at your own request I'm not sure you can call that infertility, it certainly doesn't compare to cancer patients faced with life or death decisions concerning their fertility. I found that comparison insulting.

It is deeply insulting.
There is a postcode lottery in the way NICE guidelines for fertility preservation after cancer diagnosis is applied. Also significant sex differences which are only recently starting to be analysed/ challenged.

So it seems there are more men/males with ged we dysphoria looking to preserve their sperm than women/females who have GD who want to preserve their eggs.

I don't know why but that doesn't surprise me. Will add links later, too many rabbit holes!

That's possibly because all the older transitioners are m2f ( trying to be careful with language obviously ) and they have had the added bonus of puberty making it both possible and potentially mentally able to think that far ahead

Where as the bast majority of the younger ones are girls trying to transition and starting on medication so their mental maturity is just not there whenever they reach the age it may be possible to harvest eggs.

Plus testosterone atrophys the uterus so hysterectomy is often necessary

So it seems there are more men/males with ged we dysphoria looking to preserve their sperm than women/females who have GD who want to preserve their eggs.

The same sex-based difference exists with people diagnosed with cancer who preserve their gametes.

The ease & method of collection is, of course, very relevent.

The ease & method of collection is, of course, very relevant

Absolutely and age and physical maturity as Sarah notes is also pretty key.

I'm just reminded again of Keira Bell and wanted to share this. We cannot let those involved forget what they have done.

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2020/05/12/a-de-transitioners-viewpoint-keira-bell/?fbclid=IwAR3dtyO69DCr35FKeRleFuzZNoR1V4Fh08GdCJqCg1kWKVChKjvF-1YLsjU

I'm a male on testosterone injections for a hormonal problem that meant I had a level in the 85-100yo bracket in my early 30s. I've never been given or had discussed any fertility preservation. In America you often get HCMG which keeps the testes working and seems quite effective.

When I asked my GP he said I would just have to come off and wait months to see if my fertility bounced back - not a given and less likely the longer you've been on it. I don't think I could go cold turkey anyway after having once had to go a fortnight without an injection due to a supply issue. With my body now making zero testosterone naturally (it shuts down production once you add exogenous testosterone) I'd be almost totally without for first few months. It felt horrible, like severe depression, and I don't think I could go six months feeling like that every day (a week was hard) and my sex drive was literally non existent meaning it'd be a waste of time trying anyway. And no way could I safely drive my truck without feeling alert, meaning that I'd have to stop my job which isn't an option with a mortgage etc.

I've had to accept that having children will realistically never be an option for me. Why do trans people seem to get preferential treatment?

Why do trans people seem to get preferential treatment?

I'm sorry, but you don't qualify as stunning and brave.

TRAs* make a lot of fuss, a lot of noise, and claim transphobia if they don't get their own way all the time.

*Please note that's TRAs, not trans people in general.