Dawn Butler talking about Male vs Female COVID-19 stats

[MidCLegs]

From the perspective of BAME people suffering more (which quite rightly needs to be explored) but it's interesting how she also uses the terms Male and female.

Quite a different stance from 2 months ago when she said babies were born without a sex.

twitter.com/dawnbutlerbrent/status/1258318042515279873?s=21

I work in an area where it's important to make a clear distinction between males and females. In a recent work discussion a member of the organisation was berated for saying that biological sex is real and that sex is observed, not assigned, at birth. We live in a really confusing and stupid world right now, that's for sure.

She's so very dim. She would probably say anything if it got her woke points

I'm actually shocked at the responses she's getting. It's a genuinely important issue that she's drawing attention to - the death rates of black people from Covid-19 - and the Twitter comments are completely dismissing it and dismissing her.

Is there a kind of "boy who cried wolf" effect here? Maybe if you go on TV and say that babies are born without a sex, you can't subsequently expect people to take you seriously when you start saying the global pandemic is killing black people. Even though the latter is true, and important, it seems like people are rounding it off as "more made up woke bullshit."

Even though the latter is true, and important, it seems like people are rounding it off as "more made up woke bullshit."

I think there were some commenters who were basically dismissing her and her politics of race - but not necessarily the medical element. It seemed unclear to me whether they disbelieve that there is a medical issue at all or not, but they clearly seem to have no time for Butler.

I think some people also thought she was framing it not as a medical difference that requires looking into, but as an injustice, and objected to that.

But I would say that there is an element where at least for certain public people, they don't have much credibility to discuss these type of things without a reaction, and to an extent some people are a little suspicious of these issues whenever they come up - they suspect an agenda.

It is a really important issue. Is there a nature vs nuture issue? Are BAME people generally living in more impoverished areas with less access to fresh food and fresh air, in more crowded surroundings? Working in poor conditions? Or, is there a genetic disposition to suffering more from this virus? Nobody still knows quite how and where this virus originated from.
I think the problem with Butler is that she doesn't have a voice of credibility - as Goosefoot said people suspect a SJW agenda.

Maybe if you go on TV and say that babies are born without a sex, you can't subsequently expect people to take you seriously

Indeed.

Is there a nature vs nuture issue?

Definitely.
It's not so simple that BAME people are more susceptible to COVID-19 because of race alone.

Factors that correlate with death from COVID-19 in the UK include
Being over 60 with underlying health issues, first and foremost,
Working in health care
Living in area of high pollution
Being overweight
Living in poverty

It's a virus that kills poor people.

In the UK BAME people are far more likely to be below the poverty line and living in areas of high pollution.

The disproportionate death rate among Black and Hispanic people in the US is over determined also. Treatment from cradle to grave influences it, up to and including being turned away when seeking medical treatment for Covid 19.

On Radio 4 today they said that after taking into account issues like black people more likely to be poor, the effect on them of the virus is still almost double.

I’m convinced that the high death-rates of BAME people can be explained by a deficiency of Vitamin D. Vitamin D has a scientifically-proven role in the immune system, particularly relating to the prevention of respiratory disease. Dark skins make Vitamin D much more slowly than light skins. The latest figures from the National Office of Statistics show this: the darker the skin the higher likelihood of death. Like four times more likely. Keep taking your Vitamin D supplements everyone.

Yes, and there are groups that are well economically well off and are healthy, who are non-white, and still seem more likely to have problems when they contract the virus.

The have no doubt that people being poor is a significant risk. But then, if you'd asked me without giving me any statistics if I thought being poor was a risk, I've have been sure that it was. Being poor is a risk for all kinds of health problems for pretty clear reasons.

If you are poor and a member of a group that has higher risk, say you are black, or a man, or a poor black man, that's not so great for you. And it's a good idea for doctors and scientists to find out how higher risk groups could be helped. At the same time I feel like helping the poor have better health isn't something that needs to be or should be directed based on race.

It is rather looking as if when you correct for socioeconomic factors, as far as possible, you are looking at blood groups/ genetics and vitamin D.
There is a lot more work to be done urgently on this. Unfortunately, thick politicians who have no grasp of biology, are not helpful.
I am white, but in the shielded group, dh is in the BAME group, and has diabetes. I don't know which one of us to worry about most tbh.

@endofthelinefinally him if he's over 45.

There are studies on maternity care done both in the US and UK where they have corrected for socioeconomic factors, disability, health and age factors and they still find black women have more serious complications and deaths than white women. Serena Williams who is rich and knows her medical history was shocked that Beth care professionals refused to listen to her about her own health when she had complications.

Milk in the U.S. used to have Vitamin D added to it - I don't know if it still does, or how effective that is. Plus there is more sunlight available there due to it being further south, weather patterns etc. I wonder if this pattern holds up there?

I'm actually shocked at the responses she's getting. It's a genuinely important issue that she's drawing attention to - the death rates of black people from Covid-19 - and the Twitter comments are completely dismissing it and dismissing her.

The bastardisation of intersectionality is going to continue to cause problems to all groups that suffer. In the past, oppressed groups may not have actively fought together, but in general would be more likely to respect other’s causes. People are not perfect, but going on personal experience as a woman, I would be supportive of those arguing on behalf of other oppressed groups. I won’t attack Dawn Butler; in fact I think it’s sad she’s being attacked in this way. But it is directly related to the fact that a male-centred ideology of false oppression is being shoved down our throats at every turn.

I don't know whether the disruption is a side-effect, or whether at least some of those driving this actively want us all to turn on one another. But I hope that as we drive forward with breaking down their stranglehold, we can get back to a more supportive position.

There are consequences to constantly telling people they are racist. Inaccurate or not, they're wary that SJWs will use the covid statistics to twist things round to racism rather than seeing this as a medical issue.

A supportive open letter has been sent to BAME colleagues at my work but no similar letter has been sent to older men, who are more at risk, or obese people. If it's a Vitamin D issue rather than a genetic one then it would be easier for black people to take a supplement and reduce their risk than it is be for an obese person to suddenly shed several stone.

As for the socio-economic aspect of vulnerability near where I live there is a high population of black individuals from a particular country which has a very low level of education. If we are going to import people with a low education and skill base into the UK to do low skill work, where do we think they and their families are going to sit in the socio-economic hierarchy? It's not rocket science. They are going to sit at the bottom. That is economics not racism and I think people are a bit tired of being told otherwise.

I'm actually shocked at the responses she's getting

Her combative tone didn't help.