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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Believe women - but not that one! The Tara Read case and the Democratic response.

20 replies

deepwatersolo · 03/05/2020 12:28

The lengths to which onve vocal proponents of the #metoo movement go to smear and silence Tara Reade is impressive.

Debra Messing on Twitter even thanked the die hard Republican and Kavanagh apologist Lindsey Graham for standing with Biden. The ways Tara Reade is destryoed by Democrat operatives really reflects the playbook of rape culture. Nothing changed since Monica Lewinsky's or Anita Hill's abysmal treatment or... you name it. No lessons learned.

Well that one Biden delegate who opined on Twitter that you can't really digitally penetrate a woman against her will, because of the position of the vagina... that guy has resigned. But that is about it.

Women like Stacey Abrams and Kristen Gillibrand, who currently seem to audition for the VP spot, are also adamant that they believe Joe. (Even though there is multiple evidence that Tara told family and friends about the aussault - back then and over the years). It is utterly depressing.

I get the argument that Biden is a net positive for women (and the environment and possibly peace) when the alternative is Trump (who almost certainly 'trumps' Biden when it comes to sexual assault).

But, surely, this does not require throwing women who make credible accusations against Biden under the bus and treat them like shit.

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FWRLurker · 03/05/2020 13:25

I’m horrified mostly by the media coverage or lack thereof. it validates Trumps argument that The coverage of his assaults was purely political. Like that infamous NYT tweet / article awhile back.

I haven’t seen anyone with any power on the left saying anything abusive about Reade to be honest. When asked to address it - which is mostly only asked of women by the way, a problem in itself - I’ve never heard anyone even do so much as call Reade a liar. Certainly a far cry from what was said by public officials on the right about any of Trumps or kavanaughs accusers (lots of misogynistic slurs involved, direct accusations of lying for money, etc).

deepwatersolo · 03/05/2020 13:48

Well, as I said, not just pro-Biden Twitter accounts but even Biden delegates call her a liar, or like this one guy said it could not have happened because ... (the one guy invoking female anatomy.)

And, yes, it is unfair that mostly women are asked (and not all those Jeffrey Epstein pals left and right). But at the same time, they have often been the most vocal regarding sexual assault - like Gilliband. Gilliband told Al Franken to resign over less and didn't even want to wait for an investigation. Giliband now says she stands with Biden - after all newspapers had investigated and Biden has denied.

edition.cnn.com/2020/04/29/politics/kirsten-gillibrand-joe-biden-support/index.html

Stacey Abrams (potential VP pick) falsely claimed that the NYT found the allegations not credible. This talking point was used so often by Dems that the NYT felt forced to put out a statement saying that the NYT clearly did not conclude that the allegations were not credible. Only that they could not say one way or the other.

I am sorry, but how is 'I believe Joe, I stand with Joe, because he denied it' acceptable? I mean, at one point Joe denied that he even knew any Tara Reade. But that obvious untruth apparently does not harm his credibility in the eyes of his party colleagues.

The Dems behave just like the GOP did during the Kavanagh hearing. It is just depressing.

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deepwatersolo · 03/05/2020 13:51

I’m horrified mostly by the media coverage or lack thereof.

Yes, I concur. Sorry about my rant.

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MoltenLasagne · 03/05/2020 15:30

I'm honestly appalled that Biden is the Democrat candidate. The questions about him have been around for years and somehow it's "his turn" to be President. Are we in fucking primary school?!

It is pure hypocrisy. It's saying "We believe you... but only if we don't like the guy who assaulted you". The two party system, where you get your choice of sleazebag.

deepwatersolo · 03/05/2020 15:55

I'm honestly appalled that Biden is the Democrat candidate.

I agree. After #metoo, his abysmal treatment of Anita Hill should have ended him, in nothing else. In terms of misogynyst record (and also looking at it more generally), there was literally no worse candidate running - with the exception of Bloomberg, I guess.

I guess, building third party is the only hope, if there is any. The Dems are beyond hope. Heck, even Bernie, AOC and Warren have endorsed Biden.

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Deathgrip · 03/05/2020 22:52

Does anyone remember this thread? No idea of the political affiliations of the person posting but the videos taken together certainly made me feel very uncomfortable

mobile.twitter.com/i/events/930120742422716416?lang=en

hellotoday27 · 03/05/2020 23:41

As america has such an enormous population, how come they can't find one single person to run against Trump who isn't nearly as awful as Trump. Seriously, they only need one person, it can't be that hard.

Ilovemystarter · 03/05/2020 23:51

I saw those clips (the ones linked above) and was absolutely horrified by them. They’re so awful that surely they must have been faked? I mean, that would be hiding in plain sight. Things do get faked on social media....?

MoleSmokes · 05/05/2020 13:22

Holy hell!!! Those video clips!! Shock

They do not look faked. So many of them over such a long period of time too. Fondling little girls, copping a feel of their breasts, playing with their hair, hands around their waists, telling them to stand next to him or in front of him and then stroking them - and the one where he is standing behind a child with his hands around her throat Shock I had to stop watching at that point - it is just too disturbing.

Their parents are almost always seeing what is going on but they are letting it happen because of who he is. If he was some smelly old tramp who wandered up and did those things to their daughters they would be screaming blue murder and calling the cops!

mobile.twitter.com/i/events/930120742422716416

I am in the UK not USA. All I have noticed about party politics in the USA is that there seems to be battle between supporters of the Democrats and Republicans to prove which of Trump and Biden is showing more signs of various types of dementia.

hellotoday27 - "As america has such an enormous population, how come they can't find one single person to run against Trump who isn't nearly as awful as Trump. Seriously, they only need one person, it can't be that hard."

I almost agree with you - except this guy does not seem "nearly as awful as Trump" he seems a whole lot worse going by those videos.

If grown women can lay charges of sexual assault against men who have touched their knees or patted their bums, how come no one has charged Biden with sexual assault for fondling those young girls??

Most of them are so very young, pre-pubescent, but he does not seem to give up on them when they are older. He just does not push his luck quite as much with the older girls, perhaps because it would be so much more obviously sexual if he was pawing them in the same way that he lays his hands on the really little ones.

Absolutely f&cking disgusting - it is revolting to watch and to see how uncomfortable those girls are too! if he does that in public in front of the cameras . . . this reminds me so much of the video clips of Rolf Harris fondling little girls on TV shows that circulated after he was found guilty of child sex abuse.

BovaryX · 05/05/2020 13:30

Does anyone remember the vilification of Paula Jones? James Carville et al? There is form for this behaviour. And it was on grim display during the Clinton era....

Singasonga · 05/05/2020 14:14

The USA decided years ago (and continues to this very day) to take the view that men in the White House can do as they please to women. Kennedy, Clinton, Trump. Hell, you don't have to aim as high as the presidency, you can still end up on the Supreme Court or on an Ivy League sports team.

Americans have clearly demonstrated that Trump doesn't put them off, so why should Biden?

WakeAndBake · 05/05/2020 15:10

I find it amazing that those videos of Biden fondling the young girls are not more well known. It’s almost as if there is been some sort of big cover-up going on...

NotAGirl · 05/05/2020 16:39

Envy that thread was 2017, that collection of videos painted a picture without words, what on earth were they doing letting him stand as a candidate Angry

Singasonga · 05/05/2020 17:16

It's because American voters don't care. They voted for Trump AFTER "grab them by the pussy." The Clinton days of "find out he's a creep, impeach him" are gone - now even if a candidate proudly tells them he's a creep before the election, they still vote for him.

Singasonga · 05/05/2020 17:17

Sorry, I am being a bit harsh on American voters. Enough of them don't care that showing one creep against another isn't going to split any votes.

DeployTheTut · 05/05/2020 19:27

I am FURIOUS with the Democrat Party structure that Biden has been sexually assaulting/harassing women, and girls, for YEARS, yet he was still allowed to stand? And it wasn’t used as an attack-line by other candidates? It betrays a culture of silence around the sexual harassment within the Party.

Now, American voters are left with Hobson’s choice. And the endorsements! From Obama to Hilary to AOC to Warren: they are all urging the Nation to give this old perve the power of the Presidency to sexually harass/assault, at will. It’s shameful.

Perhaps he is less likely to kill us all than Trump, but it’s a bloody awful choice to be presented with.

deepwatersolo · 05/05/2020 21:16

And to think that in the face of all these videos Tara Reade is officially not believed (the phrase Abrams and Gillibrand and other Dems use when asked is ‚I believe Biden‘) because there is ‚no pattern‘.

And to top it all off, rumor has it that David Brock is involved in the systematic smearing of Tara Reade (as liar and whatnot. As if this woman, or any other, average woman could even dream of ever paralleling Joe Biden when it comes to lies. This guy claimed he was arrested in South Africa for fighting Apartheid alongside Mandela ffs) - David Brock, who decades back smeared Anita Hill for the Republicans.

I just can‘t. This topic has me so enraged that each and every of my comments turns into a wild rant. Sorry. But it is like nothing was learned in past decades and when tooth comes to nail we‘re back to victim blaming like it is 1955. Or 1855. whatever.

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LisaSimpsonsbff · 05/05/2020 21:25

This happens time and time again - the left says it cares about women but it turns out only when caring about women doesn't conflict with supporting one of their guys. I remember I was doing my PhD and felt very safe in a bubble of people I knew 'got it' when Julian Assange was accused of rape and my horror when it turned out all the right-on, feminist men in my department were willing to spout every rape apologise myth in the book if the accused happened to be a man who they sympathised with politically. Similarly, it turned out that we were all in agreement that minorities were the only reliable arbiters of their own experience of discrimination unless they're Jewish, in which case they're just trying to smear Jeremy Corbyn.

I still think the right has a worse record on all of this, but it's the hypocrisy that stings when it's people who insist that they're always on the side of the righteous unless it might be politically inconvenient.

deepwatersolo · 05/05/2020 21:38

I mean, to an extent I get it that one says: ok, given that Biden is better than Trump on climate change, which might end humanity, so I‘ll vote Biden even if he assaults women (which Trump does, too, anyway). But the question is as a PP said: How come that we ended up with this kind of choice, considering the abundance of potential candidates.

Equally, with Assange, I do think his work in publishing war crimes and stuff was important. You can still demand they throw the book at him in Sweden. And you can at the same time demand that he must not be extradited to the US for clearly political reasons (which is against the f‘ing law, anyway). All these things are not mutually exclusive.

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FireUnderTheHand · 05/05/2020 22:22

American voters don't care. They voted for Trump AFTER "grab them by the pussy." The Clinton days of "find out he's a creep, impeach him" are gone - now even if a candidate proudly tells them he's a creep before the election, they still vote for him.

Sorry, I am being a bit harsh on American voters. Enough of them don't care that showing one creep against another isn't going to split any votes.

Many of us are ignored because we aren't Insta-famous/'stunning&brave'/entitled or waving AR-15s around trying to affix chastity belts to females or forcing maternity.

You are automatically relegated to the opposite party of the person(s) with which you are speaking regardless of whether you agree with any of that party's issues/statements/positions if you disagree with anything that is said. The parties are like religious sects - similar beliefs but each side is 'the truth'. It is all such a giant load of fucking garbage. Most Americans like most people on the planet are sheeple - undeniably indoctrinated and used in causes that neither serve nor protect them.

I'm a liberal as in the true sense, not as in the vapid interlopers that have repurposed the term liberal. Those like I are not conservative, are not 'right', are not 'progressive', are not 'left' - we are simply liberal... thus we are outsiders unable to be shepherded to 'right think' for either side.

Sheeple are neither dazzled nor in tandem with reality... but they want to be dazzled, they want 'stunning & brave', they want 'MAGA' - they just don't want to do the work of acknowledging the disparities clear to anyone with a brain because then they would see that wherever they lean they are leaning towards a pit of fire.

Trump is a nightmare on cocaine and Biden is a nightmare on acid. Trump is egotistical, narcissistic, sexist, panders to the lowest common denominator, a liar, steadfast in his oppressive and regressive perspectives, he knows what a female is and makes that clear through his misogyny and also completely rejects TWAW; Biden is the establishment, a sexist, a wolf in sheep's clothing (due to how he can be manipulated), panders to women while exalting the trans narrative and groping women and little girls (he knows what a fucking female is - does he EVER grope a male... uh no he doesn't), and a waffling liar unsteadfast in anything who claims to be moderate and is viewed as moderate when he is full-on Wokerati when it suits. Trump and Biden are different sides of the same coin - both irrefutably see women as second-class or 'non-men' to be treated as 'pets' and 'trinkets'. The right has gone right enough and the left has gone left enough that they are the same body and same mind from different perspectives but they both 'identify as correct'.

I am not indoctrinated by the Orwellian Wokerati Left nor the Nationalistic Narcoleptic Right. The candidates are wealthy with the agenda of gaining and maintaining power not leadership. The ruling class watches out for itself and direct intersections - whether celebrity, pro sporter, businessperson, or politician. To believe anything else is completely naive. None of the politicians currently in office or running give a fuck about doing what is right or about anyone that doesn't line their pockets - it is all about what will get them reelected or set them up for lobbying jobs once they are voted out or reach term-limit.

There are no candidates for me and honestly my vote doesn't matter - the RNC and DNC choose/endorse the candidates that ultimately will win and the Electoral College chooses our President/VP regardless of popular vote.

I care but I am not relevant to the process nor either party. So where does that leave those of us that truly have our eyes wide open and feel like clairvoyants for seeing what is clear for all but denied by most? I'll tell you - it leaves us on a path to the cultural Dark Ages without recourse beyond revolution and most Americans are too lazy to incite anything especially if it positions them 'on the wrong side of history' in common parlance.

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