I'm so cross. DV related.

[TheGreatWave]

On Facebook a post was shared about DV, with picture of a woman victim.

First comment was 'Men can be victims too.' Remember we should always centre men.

FFS DV rates are through the roof and all you get is "what about the men?"

Sorry, I know I am preaching to the converted. But seriously what goes through women's heads when the first thing they think of is "but what about the men"

Is it because the reality that women are at risk from men is actually too painful for people to cope with?

A bit like how poor people must have made poor decisions or must be lazy? The reality that the world is actually unfair is hard to accept.

God this makes me sick too.

Can you ask her for the numbers? How many men have died a s a victim of DV in say, the first 3 weeks of lockdown?

It usually results in tumbleweed or arguments without reason or sense (or stats or evidence).

Sometimes I play dumb if I feel like playing but most of the time it just gives me the rage too. Idiots.

I tried to give facts, but it was still "but, the men, we can't forget the men"

Fuck's sake. I think people think they're just being "clever" and pointing out the 'less well-known' factor because it's such an old, tedious fact that women are victims of terrible abuse. Two a week dying, yeah we know, tell me something we don't know eh? Novelty is more important than reality.

I was talking to my sister earlier about the increased amount of DV and automatically said 'I know men are victims too but not as many as women'.

She sounded puzzled and said 'well yes I suppose there are a few men but surely it's mostly women'.

It,s not a competttion. I wouldn,t arque I,d justr say yes your right this picture/ article happens to be of a female victim.

Personally, I think I'd go with something like "well, in the last couple of weeks it was Sonia Calvi, Maryan Ismail, Daneilla Espirito Santo, Ruth Brown, Denise Keane-Barnett-Simmon, Jadwiga Szczygielska and Emma McParland who have been killed by men, so I was thinking of them, really."

kareningalasmith.com/ (not my blog, I'm not Karen!)

I saw this posted on someone's Facebook page a while ago, sums it up perfectly I think.
www.google.com/amp/s/victimfocus.wordpress.com/2018/01/03/stop-asking-me-what-about-men/amp/

Tell your mate we don’t forget the men.

The men who kill and harm women.

It is a distraction technique used to deflect and detail the conversation. You see it all the time on Refuge and Women's Aid Facebook posts.
I've left comments before about setting up their own charity for men by men and even suggested I'm sure the womens charities could advise them, but they are not interested with engaging with common sense.

If everyone stays arguing with the NAM person then the focus is taken away from the article and off women which is what they want.

I now just sigh and ignore. No reaction is the best reaction!

I think it’s more drawing attention to the silent demographic. A large number of people still view DV as a women’s issue which is problematic in many ways. It’s not a constructive comment but a useful reminder.

I think it would be if more value if people said “anyone” can be a victim of DV. Not just within couples. Parents abused by their teenage children, elderly and vulnerable adults abused by those who should be caring for them, carers suffering abuse by relatives with mental health problems/Alzheimer’s, modern slavery etc etc.

Often people find it harder to ask for help in these situations and there are relatively fewer contact points with authorities for adult safeguarding than for children.

But none of this diminishes the fact that women are overwhelmingly the largest victim group and are certainly at most risk of murder and stalking/pursuit after leaving. There is also the more common scenario of women trying to escape with children who are at risk also.

The risk with the “what about the men” argument is it dilutes down the scale and risk of this problem for women, if it encourages the police to drive away from a house saying “just another domestic, both as bad as each other” to discredit the concerns of stalking victims or to disregard the supply of women’s refuges.

I think the “men are victims too” argument is kind of a NAMALT comment, but it isn’t actually the same thing. For indeed NAMALT at all, it’s a minority.

Jess Taylor wrote a good piece on this issue.

victimfocus.wordpress.com/2018/01/03/stop-asking-me-what-about-men/

'Whataboutery’ comes from a place of misogyny. An arrogant, derailing technique used to respond to a campaign, video, research study, intervention, organisation or communication that screams ‘I don’t care about women, talk about men!!’
And the proof is in the pudding for me. Because when I do all those things with a focus on boys and men, I’m a fucking hero. But when I do all of those things and focus on girls and women, I’m a fat, ugly feminist cunt.

Some women do it in an attempt to be politically correct and woke.

A woman I know who is a very knowledgeable trade unionist and local politician was talking about the "people killed by their partners in lockdown" and I had to point out it's women, not people.

I think they feel they're breaking down the stigma around men being domestic abuse victims too.

It's very annoying.

In different ways, in my teaching, I encourage students to think of topics that interest them to do assignments about. Almost inevitably those choosing DV want to write about 'teh poah mens'.

I was attending a lecture the other week and the lecturer gave a sheet of paper to be passed around and everyone on it was asked to write what feminism meant to them. The woman before me wrote “men not being able to see their children because women stop them”.
When it was questioned by another student (me), the teacher interjected and said if that was how she felt then that’s fine and understandable.

I was - and still am flabbergasted.

It’s like teaching science and a student telling you that the worlds flat and your lecturer agreeing with your ‘feels’ as being more important.

Why was it not unpacked? The lecturer seemed to agree.

I said 19 people had died of domestic violence in x amount of days since lockdown began (I cant remember how many days it was) I was harpied by a so called friend WHAT ABOUT MEN how many poor souls have lost their lives to VIOLENT AND AGGRESSIVE WOMEN what about TRANSWOMEN? (not transman you notice just transwomen) I asked her if men were people too? apparently that wasnt the point my so called friends and family berating me for not being specific I said dead is dead why is that not an issue for them apparently I just didnt get it

I said people and it STILL ISNT FUCKING ENOUGH

Women are trained to centre men's feelings and cater to men. Its deeply ingrained socialisation and takes a hell of a lot of work and courage to leave it behind.
I think its useful to know which friends choose not to do that work. If you are ever in a pickle, don't rely on them or trust them. Keep your counsel to yourself and let it go.

When it was questioned by another student (me), the teacher interjected and said if that was how she felt then that’s fine and understandable

It has all been reduced to 'the feels'. But, tell me, how often are you generally told you are wrong?

Education has become a commodity and is no longer about right or wrong, but about sending students away with the warm fuzzies.

I do try to explain to students that they are factually wrong on occasion and, often, I am met with anger or shock. I know this will translate to bad reviews whereas those lecturers who pander to students will get 'world's most wonderful teacher'.

All I can hope for is that some parents prepare their progeny rather better for the world of learning.

I wonder if she pops up threads about male killers/abusers and says 'women can be perpetrators too'

And I wonder if Children in Need get this kind of clapback with a barrage of people telling them adults can be vulnerable too and why aren't they thinking of the adults and by raising awareness about children you're ignoring the fact adults can face these difficulties too. Or the other way round. Rare neurological conditions can cause dementia in the young, I don't see Dementia UK being hounded by people 'gently reminding' them of this and how using a picture of an elderly person is discriminatory. It's important to know it can happen and for there to be support but it's only when it's an issue that predominantly affects women that you get this kind of reaction. I'm sure most people don't see Children in Need as exclusionary and understand it's just representing a bit of the population, that's what it wants its purpose to be, yet there's so much frothing at the mouth and whataboutery when it's a women's charity/cause/research. Its a mysoginistic parroting back of hard questions and struggles women have had to highlight in a patriarchal society. It shows such a hatred of women.

If everyone stays arguing with the NAM person then the focus is taken away from the article and off women which is what they want

This exactly, give it the attention it deserves. s pp has said its not a competition, strange how the people who commandeer these kinds of conversations never make the effort to start their own conversation about male victims of DV when its a topic so close to their hearts. I've also seen this on Twitter whenever the subject of FGM is discussed.

Infuriating. I wonder if saying yes they do, can you name them all or how many have died in the last month? But yet we don’t want to get into that conversation.

Sorry for the delay in returning, spent a significant portion of my day standing in a queue for B&M.

Thank you all for the input, it is just so infuriating. I have had to let it go - there is an absolute reluctance to accept that men are the main perpetrators, and women are the most at risk of significant harm or death due in part to the general unbalance in physical strength. I won't change opinions of the people in question, so it is pointless getting myself wound up about it. I have said my piece, I can't do much else.