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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My own invisible women moment

44 replies

Selfraising · 01/05/2020 11:14

I've been lurking for years, esp on Feminism Chat. Hi everyone and thanks for all you do! So much awareness raising. Reading this board has had a profound impact on my life. :)

I am reading Invisible Women at the moment. And I have realised that I have my own example, which has occurred in the last couple of weeks. And I am really angry about it. It feels like no one is interested, and everyone has totally dismissed the idea that it is sexist.

A number of years ago I worked in a male dominated environment (single women engineer, about 300 men). Recently a health scandal has come to light, related to toxic materials we were all exposed to. A large number of cancer cases, and several deaths, have been linked to this. There is an enquiry (I'm not sure of the technical legal terms, so might be using the wrong ones) and information about the extent of health problems among workers/previous workers is being gathered.

I don't have any of the symptoms they are looking for. Yet...
But when I was working there, and was exposed to this toxic material every day, I experienced a miscarriage and later on, a stillbirth at full term (41 weeks). There was never a reason found. I think around half of stillbirths are never explained, understood, etc. So it is not unusual to have no reason for it happening.
But since reading about this toxic material, I have come across studies suggesting it can increase the risk of stillbirth by as much as 60%!
So, it is definitely possible that exposure to the material caused my stillbirth (or 'caused my daughter to die', as I feel like saying).
So I wanted to add this to the list of health problems that are being collated. But I can't. Because it isn't an option on the data collecting forms. So I got in touch with the people (men) doing this data collecting and they could not have been less interested. Basically refused to engage in a conversation with me at all, and then dismissed my stillbirth as a miscarriage (there was no mix up, I hadn't even mentioned the miscarriage at this point, just the stillbirth). And eventually I was told it was too late for me to do anything about it anyway as the time limit for a personal injury claim has passed.

I didn't want to make a personal injury claim ffs. (And is a stillbirth, ie, the death of a baby, a personal injury anyway?? ) I wanted to add my health issue to their data. I'm not even sure why to be honest. It just seemed like the right thing to do. Surely if the company's bad practise has caused health issues, and they are gathering data about the extent of those issues, they need to include ALL the data.
Obviously it has taken a few years for the men's health problems to be exposed. But that doesn't mean that my health issue that occurred at the time ought to be completely discounted.
And I feel like it is sexist because of this (a pregnancy loss was an instant health issue, couldn't happen to a man, the men's issues take longer to show) and even though this material is now known to be linked to issues around pregnancy loss, they STILL don't list that as a health issue.

And the other sexist angle is how fucking much the men in my life (who are generally pretty great - I know, I know - we all say that...) have a problem with me a) considering this a sexist issue and b) being angry about it.

I don't know why I am posting. I am just feeling angry and sad and I don't know if I ought to pursue it further. Does anyone have any advice?

OP posts:
CushyButtercup · 01/05/2020 17:46

I mentioned your case to DH (personal injury lawyer). He says you may well have a case to claim for compensation, however it is unlikely to be straightforward and you would need good legal advice. If you are in a union you may be able to get legal advice through them.

Goosefoot · 01/05/2020 18:03

I would be really angry about that.

The fact that they immediately went to the question of liability makes me wonder who exactly is in charge of all of this and who is doing the data collection. There is something quite fishy about that response IMO.

I would be looking farther into who you could contact around the whole question.

SciFiScream · 01/05/2020 18:06

OP I'm so sorry that your daughter died.

I'm angered at the way you have been treated

I'm humbled by the grace you are showing.

Please keep challenging this. Get experts involved if you can. I've heard CCP speak and she is amazing. If you email her I think she will be able to advise.

Ineverdidmind · 01/05/2020 18:11

I am so sorry OP, I feel furious on your behalf.

This absolutely is sexism, I'm disgusted at the way you've been treated. If you feel up to it I think you should pursue this in any way you can, this could be a really important aspect that needs investigation. How dare they be so dismissive.

Focusanddetermination · 01/05/2020 19:08

So, so sorry OP just want to add my voice to those above hoping you will consider taking it further

Wearywithteens · 01/05/2020 19:26

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 01/05/2020 20:34

Bloody hell, I’m so sorry Self Flowers

Do you have a consultant who was responsible for you when you lost your daughter? They may be able to report the possible cause of her death. (Unfortunately industrial exposure is not covered by the “yellow card” system which is used for reporting drug/device adverse events)

I would look up chain who is the study reporting to etc I’m absolutely disgusted that they aren’t collecting this information.

PopandFizz · 02/05/2020 00:03

Oh. My. Days.

I am so furious for you! This is disgusting behaviour.
Do you still work for the company?

I honestly think you have a claim here and given their behaviour I think you should persue it! Call citizens advice, maybe call a personal injury lawyer. If they wont record the data it looks like they are hiding this information.
Aside from your personal hardships it could help another woman somewhere.

cressyeggy · 02/05/2020 08:01

We women stand behind you. Let us know what you need from us to move forward with this.

You are not alone in this!

fluffygreenmonsterhoody · 02/05/2020 08:06

I’m so sorry for your loss.

Another one saying please do contact Caroline CP, she’s amazing - and so are you OP.

Forgivenandsetfree · 02/05/2020 08:14

What do they mean 'the time has passed'?
You've only just found out about the cause! Such a shitty excuse and dismissal of you, awful. So sorry about your daughter's passing xx

Charley50 · 02/05/2020 08:26

Really sorry about the loss of your daughter OP and absolutely I think you should continue to pursue this. The men fobbing you off were clearly wrong to do so.

RoxytheRexy · 02/05/2020 08:28

I’m so sorry this happened to you. And I’m furious that you have been dismissed.

Is their an ethics committee or research council you can speak to?

boatyardblues · 02/05/2020 08:37

So many great snd helpful responses already, so I’ll just say your reaction is entirely reasonable in the circumstances and I am very sorry for your pregnancy losses. Flowers Don’t let this drop - the women that come after you must be protected.

MorbidMuch · 02/05/2020 08:49

I echo all the other posters above.

I am so sorry about the death of your daughter and your earlier miscarriage.

I am furious on your behalf at the way you have been treated. This is certainly a clear example of sexism in their data collection that puts women and their babies in danger. The way the spoke to you so dismissively made it even worse.

If you want to take it further, you will have all of us behind you!

stillathing · 02/05/2020 08:57

This is a heartbreaking and enraging story. It highlights for me the other side of being "invisible". As well as the data gap, the safety implications, you were not "seen", psychologically, when you tried to report your concerns. It seems to be yet another example of men completely failing to empathise with what it is to be female. Failing to put themselves in your shoes, to imagine what your experience felt like, to you.

I am so sorry for the loss of your daughter. I hope you decide to take this further. I'm sure you would find a lot of support here if you needed it. Flowers

nettie434 · 02/05/2020 09:44

So very sorry for your losses. Heartbreaking and enraging are exactly the right words. It must make it so much harder when your experiences are dismissed. Miscarriage and stillbirth are surely among the most severe examples of risks from any toxic substance?

I realise that the lack of women in your profession means that other health problems will probably be reported more frequently on the data collection form but surely they need a ‘any other’ question on the form to pick up any examples of rarer problems? I am really sorry about using ‘any other’ in relation to your experiences. I am trying to find the right words to point out that no list of options can be 100% comprehensive without an ‘any other’ option.

Caroline Criado Perez has been highlighting the lack of personal protective equipment in women’s sizes recently. She was not the first person to say it but because she is so adept in terms of getting media coverage, it has now received more coverage so it does seem worth contacting her.

Shouldbedoing · 02/05/2020 09:50

I'm sure that the time to complain is from the time of the negligence or from the time you discovered the negligence/injury

2ndStar · 02/05/2020 14:07

This is appalling. I’m so sorry for your losses. It must feel like a second body blow to have to be fighting to have it acknowledged for this enquiry.

Union help if you have the option. Health and Safety Executive have some far reaching powers. Can you find out who has instigated the enquiry? I’m so angry on your behalf. Surely this is direct sex discrimination?

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