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Original poster

Times 23 Apr 2020 Girl launches changing room privacy case

26 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 23/04/2020 09:20

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/girl-launches-changing-room-privacy-case-lhn9vjv7n

A 13-year-old girl who objects to sharing changing rooms with transgender pupils has been granted permission by the High Court to take landmark legal action against her local council over its schools policy.

The teenager said this gives her “no right to privacy from the opposite sex”.

OP posts:
Lamahaha · 23/04/2020 09:26

Fabulous. More sunlight!

MangoesAreMyFavourite · 23/04/2020 09:35

This is great - but so sad that it's being left to 13 year olds because the grown men & women (and it is men mostly) can't think of girls and women.

The council 'utterly refutes' concerns that children are being put at risk!!!

Have they no imagination? Do they not know what teen age boys will get up to to get access to teenage girls?

Original poster
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 23/04/2020 09:38

I don't know the whole story but it's interesting that it seems as if the court case is about right to privacy and single sex spaces and the council immediately effectively pivots to transgirls aren't a risk. Very TRA tactic of arguing against something different.

OP posts:
BringbackLang · 23/04/2020 09:46

Does anyone have a share token for this article?

Lamahaha · 23/04/2020 09:55

I hope this is a share token.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/girl-launches-changing-room-privacy-case-lhn9vjv7n

Lamahaha · 23/04/2020 09:57

hmmm looks like it is the same as above. I don't know how to create a share token sorry. It says "share" on the page but it's not a live link.

Michelleoftheresistance · 23/04/2020 09:58

Most of the boys won't be a risk either: she's still entitled to privacy from them and no one questions that or thinks that's wrong. Privacy for single sex spaces is a given in our society.

Its utterly ridiculous that girls are expected to instantly abandon this normality if a boy chooses to say he identifies as a girl. The experience of the girls is not altered by the internal feelings of the male in question, and the morality of unquestioningly prioritising the wishes and feelings of the male in the situation while telling the females in the situation that their wishes, feelings, bodily privacy and dignity must be subordinated to the male's.... it's indefensible.

NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 23/04/2020 10:06

The council 'utterly refutes' concerns that children are being put at risk!!!

Well, firstly that's cockcustard. There absolutely will be increased risk.

Secondly, however, is it necessarily all about risk? I don't think that my 'risk' would be increased by a rule allowing (for the sake of this argument) my dad and my best (male) friend into my gym changing room. However, I don't want them there. It's about my privacy and dignity as well as the risk factor!

Lamahaha · 23/04/2020 10:08

According to the article:

The teenager said this gives her “no right to privacy from the opposite sex”.

The council's response:
The council 'utterly refutes' concerns that children are being put at risk

Even if there is no risk whatsoever, girls still have a right to privacy and dignity.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 23/04/2020 10:08

Share token:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8d17d342-84bb-11ea-b876-ef9d21d57c48?shareToken=efbeb30f1ce3d192b30e243d3fa87567

Lamahaha
Look for the little envelope icon usually under the caption / photo at the top. Click on that and it takes you to an email with a link that you can cut and paste.

R0wantrees · 23/04/2020 10:10

article concludes:
The legal team expects the case to be heard in the autumn.

It is being financed through crowdfunding and is backed by the Safe Schools Alliance UK, which campaigns for safeguarding in schools.

Tanya Carter, its spokeswoman, said: “We believe that the guidance is unlawful and undermines both safeguarding and the Equality Act 2010.”
safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

nauticant · 23/04/2020 10:31

It's good that there's sunlight, but, good grief, there are a lot of depressing comments in that thread. (There are plenty of sensible ones too.) It seems to be a widespread belief that if you can get girls to say "I want to be inclusive so I won't object" then you've solved the problem.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/04/2020 10:31

Even if there is no risk whatsoever, girls still have a right to privacy and dignity.

This. What about this don't people get? When it is all being done to protect other people's feelings in the first place?

BringbackLang · 23/04/2020 10:32

Thank you!

MrsDoylesTeaBags · 23/04/2020 10:38

the morality of unquestioningly prioritising the wishes and feelings of the male in the situation while telling the females in the situation that their wishes, feelings, bodily privacy and dignity must be subordinated to the male's.... it's indefensible.

It feels like we're living in the upsidedown

Lamahaha · 23/04/2020 10:45

Look for the little envelope icon usually under the caption / photo at the top. Click on that and it takes you to an email with a link that you can cut and paste.

Thanks, truth! Got it now.

Some of the comments are indeed depressing. One of them even compares trans rights to the rights of black people. When oh when will people get it?

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 23/04/2020 10:59

Exactly, the point about male family members is a good one - I'd be perfectly safe and there's no 'risk' changing with my brother, for example, but I don't want to.

the morality of unquestioningly prioritising the wishes and feelings of the male in the situation while telling the females in the situation that their wishes, feelings, bodily privacy and dignity must be subordinated to the male's.... it's indefensible.

Yep.

Barracker · 23/04/2020 11:13

What you all said.

But an extra peeve. I wish journalists would stop the deliberate misrepresentation. This conflation of "boys/men" with "all 'transpeople'".

Objecting to the opposite sex (who ID as trans) whilst accepting the same sex (who ID as trans) is patently not "objecting to all trans people".

It happens in headlines All The Time and it's infuriating. Men and boys are not All People.

Women and girls excluding men and boys from female changing rooms and female sports are not excluding "trans people" at all. Any more than excluding a disabled boy is 'excluding disabled people', or excluding a Hindu boy is 'excluding Hindu people', or excluding a bisexual boy is 'excluding bisexual people'.

Women and girls are also people.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 23/04/2020 11:38

Precisely, Barracker. What I think the use of the language reflects is that the journalists aren't even considering the role female trans people might play in this debate, because they know they're female and thus much less likely to insist on being in spaces where they're not wanted and also wouldn't be much of a threat if they did. Everyone instinctively knows that the problem here is men and boys in spaces intended for women and girls, no matter how much they attempt to contort themselves into pretending otherwise.

Also, for a lot of people who haven't been paying much attention to this debate it may not even have occurred to them that female trans people exist. Say "trans person" to them and they will think of someone with a y chromosome.

ThinEndoftheWedge · 23/04/2020 12:21

Exactly, the point about male family members is a good one - I'd be perfectly safe and there's no 'risk' changing with my brother, for example, but I don't want to.

And I expect he wouldn’t want to either. Likewise my husband, brother, father etc..

The fact that we live in a society where some adult males are openly able to voice their desire access to female single sex facilities - such as changing rooms where there are women and girls in varying degrees of undress and nakedness - and is viewed a stunning and brave is utterly grotesque.

Freespeecher · 23/04/2020 13:07

It's back to Chesterton's Gate again.

Why were the rules of female-only changing rooms first introduced?

Why do you think they no longer apply?

If no satisfactory answer can be given to the above then the change cannot be justified.

SarahTancredi · 23/04/2020 13:17

With regards to the comments, theres 2 posters who on the last few articles I saw them post on they were completely put right and turned to abuse and sounded more and more unhinged and incoherent and I haven't seen them for a while . Its possible they have name changed or I've just missed them

But similar seems to be happening here. Utterly incoherent nonsense that even the posters who dont write depm.knowledge and experience like the wonderful flapjack and silver lady, see to still pick up on and call out.

Its slight progress even though its still depressing they are there

Lamahaha · 23/04/2020 17:53

Many, if not most, of the positive comments seem to be from men, as well, which is good. It's about time men wake up. A pity this only happened when it threatened to impact their daughters.

skql · 23/04/2020 18:16

Lamahaha

as i know, most of men are not in to this at first.
but they also been silenced.

women are more supportive trans movement.

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