Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women & Equalities 22nd April 2020 - YES!

86 replies

dianebrewster · 22/04/2020 16:54

From Liz Truss Today

Here

" The final point I’d like to make, Madam Chairman, in this initial part, is on the issue of the Gender Recognition Act. We’ve been doing a lot of work internally, making sure we’re in a position to respond to that consultation and launch what we propose to do on the future of the Gender Recognition Act. We will be in a position to do that by the summer, and there are three very important principles that I will be putting place.

First of all, the protection of single-sex spaces, which is extremely important.

Secondly making sure that transgender adults are free to live their lives as they wish without fear of persecution, whilst maintaining the proper checks and balances in the system.

Finally, which is not a direct issue concerning the Gender Recognition Act, but is relevant, making sure that the under 18s are protected from decisions that they could make, that are irreversible in the future. I believe strongly that adults should have the freedom to lead their lives as they see fit, but I think it’s very important that while people are still developing their decision-making capabilities that we protect them from making those irreversible decisions. "

OP posts:
MrsSnippyPants · 22/04/2020 18:47

I am cautiously optimistic, but as always it will come down to the definition of single sex.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 22/04/2020 18:50

happydappy2
I expect this is the first time that the TRAs (on or off twitter) will ever have encountered someone with influence saying no. To date they have been able to appropriate women's spaces, identity, sport and the rest with no challenge at all from government. All the professions, businesses, M & S etc bowing down to them. Until today.

Newuser123123 · 22/04/2020 19:21

Yes there is an incredulity in the responses that you don't find in women as we generally unsurprised at having our rights curtailed.

Tootsweets23 · 22/04/2020 19:49

I think her statement was pretty unambiguous, so while yes it comes down to the definition of sex, I don't think the tone of any of it suggests she is planning on fudging this. And why would the tories want to fudge? 80 sets majority, pandering to trans bollocks at the expense of women/girls is a vote loser, killing self ID is one of the many things people expect from them.

Thelnebriati · 22/04/2020 19:54

Secondly making sure that transgender adults are free to live their lives as they wish without fear of persecution, whilst maintaining the proper checks and balances in the system.

This isn't support for self ID, it underlines sex as a protected characteristic and clarifies the existing protection offered to both women and trans people by the Equality Act;

it is not permitted to discriminate against a person based on their trans status, and
refusing a trans person access to a single sex space on the grounds they are a different sex is not discrimination.

JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown · 22/04/2020 20:17

I've already seen some violent and abusive tweets about Liz Truss. I hope she's got her hard hat on.

NotAtMyAge · 22/04/2020 20:38

Makes me so glad I woke up to this in time to do a submission to the GRA consultation.

mcduffy · 22/04/2020 20:40

I feel a bit teary. It feels like someone sensible and grown up is in charge!

Al1Langdownthecleghole · 22/04/2020 22:58

Well that’s three steps in the right direction.

I’m so grateful to all the women who have been fighting for this. I’m certain there will be need for more strength in future, but Thank you everyone who’s efforts have got us this far.

SuitedandBooted · 22/04/2020 23:14

Mermaids are not happy, which makes my day! Still being all wide-eyed with their " Well of course we support Ms Truss, but single sex must include all women (ie blokes)" shit. I think they know the Woke express may have started to run out of steam...

Carowiththegoodhair · 22/04/2020 23:19

The significance of this is that a government minister gone on record. That’s massively important and means she can be held to account.

R0wantrees · 22/04/2020 23:31

Mermaids are not happy, which makes my day!

Mermaids statement
(extract)
"It would be an extraordinary move for the Minister for Women and Equalities to support the introduction of a new form of inequality into British medical practice, by effectively treating transgender teenagers as less capable than their cisgender peers. We believe that transgender young people should have the same right to make important personal decisions as non-trans people. Furthermore, we must question why Ms Truss is making a statement about clinical pathways while answering a question on the Gender Recognition Act, which has no bearing on medical care.

Still, the NHS’s own statistics show the rate of regret around gender affirmation surgeries is very low indeed. An NHS study found that of 3,398 trans patients who’d accessed NHS support, 16 expressed regret, and only 3 made a long-term detransition. Regret following any surgery is commonplace but – according to a number of international studies – regret for post-operative gender-transition patients is far lower than for other forms of ‘plastic surgery’.

Furthermore, the process by which young, trans people access medical interventions is already subject to a number of safeguards, not least the clinical judgement of our own experts within the health system. No young person under the age of 16 would typically have access to any form of gender-affirmation surgery and those aged 16 and 17 are subject to the same safeguards any young person would be when making decisions around surgery, in accordance with Gillick Competence.

We would like to offer the Minister for Women and Equalities an opportunity to meet some of our young people so she can hear them talk directly about any decisions which may affect their right to take the same personal responsibilities as their cisgender peers."
mermaidsuk.org.uk/media-statements/

NonnyMouse1337 · 22/04/2020 23:48

Wow.... Is this really happening? Shock

It almost sounds too good to be true! Very encouraging. I'll sit in the corner with my cautiously optimistic hat on as well.

Polynerd · 22/04/2020 23:49

I've always thought Liz Truss got a lot of sexist shit. Good on her!

Thesuzle · 22/04/2020 23:52

Well good about single sex spaces. So did she say then, that TWAW, not in my book

AnnofPeeves · 23/04/2020 00:01

This appears to be excellent news. Can I just also add a word about the MP Jackie Doyle-Price who speaks out regularly on Twitter. And of course gets endless shit for doing so.

R0wantrees · 23/04/2020 00:14

22-Apr-18 OP RedToothBrush wrote:

*Liz Truss MP breaks cover: backs MN
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5642853/Cabinet-minister-prompts-transgender-row-backing-Mumsnet-users.html
Cabinet minister prompts transgender row after backing Mumsnet users 'leading backlash against militant activists'

That's a total if THREE Trans stories in the Mail on Sunday online dated with the 21st/22nd April.

This is Truss's tweet from 4 days ago

Elizabeth Truss @ trussliz
^I enjoy a heated debate with @ MumsnetTowers on childcare and I hail her for her approach to free speech. #openminded #freemums
With link to Kirkup's spectactor article.^

The original tweet only got about a dozen replies, 24 retweets and a 105 likes.

Cursed E was one of the few responders."
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3228488-Liz-Truss-MP-breaks-cover-backs-MN

R0wantrees · 23/04/2020 00:18

from the Mail on Sunday article By GLEN OWEN DEPUTY POLITICAL EDITOR (linked above)
22 April 2018

"Last night Delia Johnston, the former head of a charity campaigning for trans sportspeople to be allowed to compete in their chosen gender, condemned Ms Truss. Ms Johnston said: ‘She is giving kudos to Mumsnet who are particularly vicious on this particular front. Truss could be investigated for backing a group that is effectively advocating violence against the transgender community. She may be a terf in disguise.’" (continues)

Angryresister · 23/04/2020 00:29

Why would our leader BJ be angry I wonder? Who is this Delia person who seriously believes that any of us advocate violence? I do think we should write in support but make to clear that TW will never ever be women, living in your chosen gender is meaningless and the whole sorry Act should be repealed.

R0wantrees · 23/04/2020 00:56

Who is this Delia person who seriously believes that any of us advocate violence?

Delia Johnston played a significant role in ensuring the implementation of sporting bodies' policies enabling males who identify as transgender to take part in female teams, use changing rooms etc

BBC 2015 'Transsexual Delia Johnston - I hated sport before my sex change'
(extract)
"As a man, she was successful in her work in the communications industry, but an introvert. Now she's a self-confessed lunatic.

"I'm a party animal and I enjoy life to the max and I love sport, whereas before I hated sport with a vengeance," she said.

Her love for sport was triggered by working for London 2012 organisers Locog before and during the Olympics and Paralympics, looking after accreditation for athletes and officials." (continues)
www.bbc.com/sport/get-inspired/31748076

2015 Metro 'Transgender woman on struggle with new identity – and how she was accepted by the FA, but not her daughter'

(extract)
She now works as specialist diversity consultant for Trans In Sport, Northamptonshire Police and England Netball, fighting for the rights of the transgender community.

According to their 2003 rules the IOC [International Olympic Committee] says you need to be on two years of medical hormones before you can play on the team of your assigned gender – something Delia believes is the wrong approach. ‘I think those rules are stupid,’ she says. ‘The requirements are extremely demanding and not all individuals can achieve what is required in time. By then, they may have passed their peak in terms of performance.’ Delia argues that physically, you change greatly, quickly, once you start taking female hormones.

‘I believe sport is so important. It helps you socially physically and mentally,’ she says. ‘Sports UK and Sports England have now rolled out new guidance. They’ve issued a Transsexual Inclusion In Sport document for domestic, national and international competitions. ‘But there’s not enough actual sports governing bodies implementing changes and policy review in light of this. (continues)

As Delia says, some bodies deserve credit where it’s due. Namely, the English Football Association, or The FA. Delia worked for the organisation despite, she says, having been told they were ‘homophobic’. Undeterred, she went in and examined the structure of the organisation from a transgender perspective, and found The FA to be the most inclusive of all sports organisations she’d come across – and in fact, the most instrumental in getting transsexuals involved in football. ‘A female to male person wants to do what any other male does – which may include playing football,’ she says. ‘The FA has been the most pro-active and reactive in their inclusion of trans people within football. ‘There are, incredibly, many new transsexuals participating in various levels of football this year.’ Delia believes that if we keep this conversation going, even more trans athletes can step out in the field much sooner. ‘Looking back over the last five and a half years, who would have thought that I would achieve so much after going through so much, that I would help so many, and most importantly, that I would have so much fun?" (continues)

metro.co.uk/2015/10/21/transgender-woman-on-her-desperate-struggle-with-her-new-identity-and-how-she-was-accepted-by-the-fa-but-not-her-daughter-5376352/

2013 The Real Life Test: Delia Johnston at TEDxMiltonKeynesWomen

(I have a vague memory of there being a connection with Edward Lord, who was also involved with the FA, but can't be sure)

R0wantrees · 23/04/2020 00:58

Can I just also add a word about the MP Jackie Doyle-Price who speaks out regularly on Twitter. And of course gets endless shit for doing so.

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3887407-Jackie-Doyle-Price-MP-for-Thurrock-tweets-about-Tavistock

nettie434 · 23/04/2020 01:04

James Kirkup has written about her statement too.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-importance-of-liz-truss-s-trans-promise

I think with the Keira Bell case and statements by people like Carl Heneghan, it would have been very difficult for any government not to take some sort of action. It will be important to make sure that young people are offered proper support. The current system is clearly not working with the lack of joined up approaches and links with other services, such as mental health.

Anybody who thinks that Liz Truss will be easily swayed clearly hasn’t followed her career. She is extremely tough.

R0wantrees · 23/04/2020 01:24

The statement today builds on comments made by Victoria Atkins MP (previous Minister for Women)

Sophie Foster Telegraph August 2018
'Women's minister 'cautious' over the number of teenagers undergoing gender reassignment treatment'
(extract)
The women’s minister has said she is “cautious” about the number of teenagers undergoing gender reassignment treatment and warned the country needs to be “particularly alert” to the issue.

Victoria Atkins expressed concern that a rising number of teenagers were seeking “life-changing” medical interventions. Young people were undergoing treatment to change their gender because they regard it as “an answer to questions they are not asking themselves”, the minister said.

In an interview with The Telegraph, Mrs Atkins, who has responsibility for the Government’s gender equality policy, said: “I read in the paper recently that there has been a large increase in the number of teenagers who are identifying as such, and I think we need to get down to the reasons why this is happening." (continues)
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/26/womens-minister-cautious-number-teenagers-undergoing-gender/

James Kirkup Spectator 21 Nov 2018
'This MP has summed up everything wrong with the transgender debate' **
(extract)
"Again, I don’t endorse everything Atkins said (I think she’s a tiny bit blasé about how effectively the Equality Act 2010’s single-sex exemptions are being implemented in everyday practice) but her general approach and tone were the right: it’s a complicated, contentious issue where loud voices on the extremes have drowned out and sometimes silenced legitimate questions.

Here are two eminently reasonable Atkins quotes that should be utterly uncontroversial but which are, in this context, refreshingly bold:

'People are sometimes almost too scared to talk about things, which is not right. We do not want a climate of fear in the debate. We want people to be able to express their views respectfully and in a caring and careful manner, so that we ensure that questions are flushed out and answered.'

And:

'I get asked about this issue regularly, and we all share a sense of sadness about the fact that this important debate sometimes gets taken over by loud and sometimes aggressive campaigning by activists. I am sure they hold their beliefs very strongly, but they perhaps lose sight of the fact that we have to be able to talk about this issue in a reasoned, respectful and caring fashion. The vast majority of the public—and, I am sure, parliamentarians—are in the middle. We want to talk about this issue in a caring and careful way so society gets to a position in which we are all comfortable with the consequences of the changes to legislation and so on.' (continues)
www.spectator.co.uk/article/this-mp-has-summed-up-everything-wrong-with-the-transgender-debate

** refers to the Westminster Hall debate when Layla Moran talked of seeing people's souls rather than recognising the risk that males might represent to females in spaces such as prisons, changing rooms etc

Datun · 23/04/2020 01:30

Finally, which is not a direct issue concerning the Gender Recognition Act, but is relevant, making sure that the under 18s are protected from decisions that they could make, that are irreversible in the future.

This is such good new. First step, stop the promotion in primary schools.

Teabaseddiet · 23/04/2020 01:57

This is great news. I almost daren't get excited about it yet.