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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Covid-19 and purity spirals

684 replies

DreadPirateLuna · 09/04/2020 13:54

Covid-19 is a very serious illness which threatens our most vulnerable and risks overwhelming the NHS. We should all do what we can to flatten the curve and save lives. People whose behaviour risks lives (e.g. urban residents traveling out to holiday homes in rural communities) should face criticism and sanctions.

However, I can't help feeling that some of the outrage at some behaviours is less about reducing the spread and more about getting caught in a "purity spiral".

Take all the outrage about people in parks. Fresh air and sunshine is good for physical and mental health, it improves the immune system which is particularly important during an epidemic! Many urban residents have no other source of open space except the local park. The ability to get outside can be lifesaving for victims of DV. Risks of contracting disease are very low if you keep your distance from others outside your household.

Yet I've seen photos of walkers and family groups in parks, keeping far away from others, but accused of selfishness and killing the elderly and disrespecting the NHS. Parks in London have been closed, meaning more congestion of other areas and residents confined to homes, which is damaging for reasons outlined above.

And it's usually (though not exclusively) women and esp mothers who get blamed. Those selfish Karens and their broods.

A more sensible solution would be to allow restricted access to the parks. Maybe allow only locals in nearby flats without gardens. But it seems we're not doing sensible these days.

OP posts:
isabellerossignol · 12/04/2020 15:32

You're right TheProdigal, I need to stop responding to the obvious goading. I've got to the point where I'm not sure I even believe the sob story any more, I think it's a wind up and I have fallen for it. Will I ever learn?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 12/04/2020 15:39

Discipline! And all that shit!

(Joking obviously).

Just wait, when antibody tests become available that will be the next "you're a bastard who wants everyone to die if you don't get one every fortnight" topic, and some people will be coming back with "well I as a responsible person get tested every 3 days, so there!", and some other person will be all "I still think this is just like the flu and everyone is exaggerating so I do not intend to get tested ever".

nolongersurprised · 12/04/2020 15:40

I read your "test every two weeks" comment before I saw this and my head had already started doing the maths and exploding!

If the test could be expanded to do IgM testing as well as IgG that would help with the two week lag time. Although probably need to know how long serological immunity lasts first.

Surely longer than a year though? Which would be useful for the immediate problem.
Passive immunity from placental IgG transfer from mother to fetus lasts until the baby is about 1 year, you’d think if you had then virus you’d get at least a year’s immunity out of it. Although there’s viral mutation as well, I suppose.

I think it’s time for me to sleep!

StatisticallyChallenged · 12/04/2020 15:40

No, they'll be told to have one antibody test a year and if it's negative they must stay at home until the next one. Purity spiral v2.0

nolongersurprised · 12/04/2020 15:42

No, they'll be told to have one antibody test a year and if it's negative they must stay at home until the next one. Purity spiral v2.0

I’m properly laughing now and DH is fast asleep.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 12/04/2020 15:47

And at some point someone will insist that testing causes autism.

StatisticallyChallenged · 12/04/2020 15:48

No, the testing implants a special tracker up your nose. The government can now read your thoughts.

It's the 5G that's going to give us the autism...

Tootletum · 12/04/2020 15:52

I agree with all your points OP, but you're wasting your breath on the 80% of Mumsnet that are mainly interested in authoritarian interpretation of the rules whilst they sit in their gardens.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 12/04/2020 15:52

In that vein, it's more taking advantage of a fear spiral than a purity spiral but behold, special anti viral tissues.

www.amazon.co.uk/Kleenex-Anti-Viral-Facial-Tissue-boxes/dp/B004W6X7D0?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

nolongersurprised · 12/04/2020 15:52

Just wait, when antibody tests become available that will be the next "you're a bastard who wants everyone to die if you don't get one every fortnight" topic, and some people will be coming back with "well I as a responsible person get tested every 3 days, so there!", and some other person will be all "I still think this is just like the flu and everyone is exaggerating so I do not intend to get tested ever".

I predict there will be some people who test positive but still refuse to come out of isolation because the specificity of the test is only 99.99999999 and there is a chance that the positive test is a false positive and “they’re not putting their health at risk”.

alloutoffucks · 12/04/2020 15:55

I think there will be a lot of people who will test negative who are sure they have had it.
Only 10% of the population are supposed to have had it, but way more than that amongst my friends and family are convinced the illness they had was corona.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 12/04/2020 16:06

And convinced they definitely had it in October last year.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 12/04/2020 16:08

(I realize they've existed for a while but still, sold out! I had never noticed them till now.)

StatisticallyChallenged · 12/04/2020 16:09

a lot of people who will test negative who are sure they have had it.

We're also averaging way over 10%, and of people who haven't been in contact with each other. Some are drama llamas but I reckon we're way over the 10% in cases I actually believe.

But conspiracy theory prediction - "they're telling people they're negative so their mates can steal our jobs"

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 12/04/2020 16:12

And so much for my magical thinking. Matt Hancock right now announcing an NHS tracking app to alert you if you've been in contact with someone with it.

Clearly not so off track with my predictions

StatisticallyChallenged · 12/04/2020 16:14

I fully expected a tracking app - I just won't believe it's going to suddenly turn us in to one of the countries with a miniscule number of cases. The start point is too high.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 12/04/2020 16:17

The starting point now is too high which is why the lockdown will remain until the starting point is much lower.

nolongersurprised · 12/04/2020 16:19

I just won't believe it's going to suddenly turn us in to one of the countries with a miniscule number of cases. The start point is too high.

Yep.

Way too high and the undertesting is woeful. What’s the point in an app if you’re only testing 1/6 or so of the cases (probably less, given asymptomatic spread) and the actual cases are likely at least 1/2 million?

nolongersurprised · 12/04/2020 16:19

The starting point now is too high which is why the lockdown will remain until the starting point is much lower.

How will you know?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 12/04/2020 16:26

Because they are able to forecast numbers by projecting from numbers admitted, deaths etc.

The app won't work until wide spread testing is available, and that is coming. Of course tracking won't work until full testing is in place which is why I've been repeatedly saying they have to test, track, trace and quarantine.

nolongersurprised · 12/04/2020 16:30

At the moment South Korea have 2900 active cases. The U.K. has supposedly 78000 or so, but that’s an underestimate given that the UK’s death rate is 12.5% and South Korea’s is 2%.

Assuming South Korea’s rate is correct (still likely an overestimate) there are about 500, 000 people actively infected in the U.K. in South Korea there are fewer than 3000.

Those U.K. numbers are too big to drop to the tiny numbers you want Hooves. Think about it - this whole thing started after a few infected people came into the country. The numbers are too big now to track all the contacts, the U.K. has the lowest testing rates in Europe as well so a whole heap are being missed.

I know you want to get the numbers as low as South Korea’s but it’s just not going to happen.

StatisticallyChallenged · 12/04/2020 16:33

I agree, the UK numbers are too big to drop to those miniscule numbers within a period which is economically manageable.

nolongersurprised · 12/04/2020 16:43

www.bbc.com/news/52149297

Currently in England there are 10 000 tests/day and they are aiming for 25 000/day bu the end of April. Their ultimate aim is 100 000/day which seems lofty given that’s 10X what they’ve managed this far. At current testing rate it’ll take weeks and weeks to even find the 400 000 or so positive cases they’ve missed by which time the cases will have grown even further.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 12/04/2020 16:46

They don't need to get down to 2,500. It needs to come down low enough to monitor it.

I'd love to hear your plans from coming out of lockdown. Is it just basically lots of you will die? Do you think the public will just accept people dying at home without medical care?

MilesJuppIsMyBitch · 12/04/2020 16:48

I hope everybody is having a lovely, impure Easter with chocolate & wine Wine