Men should stay at home to minimise risk. Can we have this conversation?

[DJLippy]

The stats are showing that men are far more likely to die from Corona than women. It's a 70/30 split according to some estimates.

However when I go out on my daily bike ride I notice far more men in the streets than women. They are very vulnerable to Covid I am concerned. Should we encourage men who are not key workers to stay at home? Would society be able to function?

Many of the key services are staffed by women. The NHS workforce is 74% female and nurses and health care assistant workforces (who provide the most intimate care) are 90% female. Even doctors (who we often imagine as male) are 45% female.

The key workers seem to be split by sex quite a lot. For example - nurses and teachers overwhelmingly female. Drivers, engineers, road crews ect overwhelmingly male. Obviously they are allowed to travel freely. They are doing vital work.

Is there a case to be made (to minimise risk) that men should stay in the house?

Aside from the genetic aspects which make men vulnerable to Covid, stats show that men (as a class) all have much lower personal hygiene than women. Women obey the hand washing rules better than men. Therefore women (as a class) are less likely to spread disease.

Meanwhile police have to concentrate their resources on Covid related issues. Considering that men commit 90% of violent crime maybe it's best we introduce a law which keeps the sex with the greatest propensity for criminality in the house.

I cant help but feel like if the stats were the other way around women would be living under house arrest. Or at least face a lot of social pressure to do so...

Can we have a conversation about this?

We could try. Evidence suggests we might not be able to do so unharrassed, but I think it's a reasonable question to ask.

Definitely a reasonable question to ask. I agree.

I posted this and then I thought - keeping men inside doesn't necessarily reduce their criminality, it just hides it from public view as they will be more likely to enact their violence on women rather than on weaker seeming men.

Well yes, that would be my first concern actually, given the rise in DV. I mean, it's a good general message, pointing out that curfews for men are more logical than those for women, but in practice, more men contained inside wouldn't necessarily be good for women.

I have already discussed with dh that where there is shopping/out of home stuff to be done, I should do it rather than him as he's at greater risk (not huge, but certainly higher than mine): he's a scientist so sort of agreed whilst pointing out if I got it he was likely to as well...

Can you have the conversation with my dad? He does seem to gradually be taking onboard the fact that there is a significant risk to people in his demographic (71, former smoker) but it's taken a lot of persuasion and I'm still not convinced that when he finally gets home (has been stranded overseas due to flights being cancelled) he won't stop at every single shop in town that's open.

I have already discussed with dh that where there is shopping/out of home stuff to be done, I should do it rather than him as he's at greater risk (not huge, but certainly higher than mine): he's a scientist so sort of agreed whilst pointing out if I got it he was likely to as well...

Likewise here, but mine took the science a step further - the first person in a household to catch it from careful shopping is likely to get a low viral load which is more readily combatted by the immune system, the second person is likely to be infected with a higher load from them. So it'd be better if he got it first.

However, fortunately he then put his mind to finding local suppliers who'd deliver so neither of us has any reason to go out at all except for walks (with due attention to social distancing).

This may be a bit 'my Nigel', but the more I read MN threads of late, the more I think I picked a good 'un.

Likewise here, but mine took the science a step further - the first person in a household to catch it from careful shopping is likely to get a low viral load which is more readily combatted by the immune system, the second person is likely to be infected with a higher load from them. So it'd be better if he got it first.
this has been my exact thinking! plus the knowledge that keeping the kids away from me when isolating from household will prove almost impossible whilst they would more allow me to keep them from him.
(I also think that I would do better at infection control that he would - he isn’t science minded at all)

Many of the key services are staffed by women. The NHS workforce is 74% female and nurses and health care assistant workforces (who provide the most intimate care) are 90% female. Even doctors (who we often imagine as male) are 45% female

Are you suggesting that, at a time when we're pulling in retired healthcare professionals, we take 55% of doctors out of the equation? That's to say nothing of taking over 70% of police officers out of action.

apple.news/AjOuWmtmqRaOwaUvJ3UhLxg 20-30 man playing cricket in a Park.

This may be a bit 'my Nigel', but the more I read MN threads of late, the more I think I picked a good 'un.

You did for sure but you were also intelligent enough to know you needed to have that conversation. Mumsnet is full of women who never seem to have had much of a conversation with their partner about anything! Especially finance. Then they wonder why he is happy earning loads and not wanting to 'share' when their partner is made redundant/on maternity leave!

Some good points, but how many women are sending the men to do the shopping or whatever because it's 'too dangerous' or because mums won't/can't leave children? I've seen an awful lot of that, the thinking behind it is obviously horribly ingrained and part of a larger issue but certainly accounts for a proportion of men outside the home.

No no no. It's only women who are expected to modify their behaviour.

The problem I’m noticing with the increase of brave, heroic men risking the supermarket now is that they are as oblivious to supermarket etiquette as before the pandemic.
Oblivious to those around them, not noticing the 2m tapes helpfully marking the floor, reaching over me to get stuff, scratching and sniffing as usual, blocking aisles whilst they chat to their partner on the phone...
The majority are so unaware, it’s infuriating.

That's funny @ErrolTheDragon, dh did mutter about viral load too, but we've got a fairly discrete separate room set up, plus I pointed out that the stress of him having bought all the Wrong Things and not knowing his way around the shop as well as I do might also impact on our decision-making (less scientific, admittedly!) I could see that he was itching to be hunter gatherer though, and he is normally NOT that type ;-)

I've not been into a supermarket yet but will be interested to see the sex differences at work...

But everyone is at risk (young women have died too) and anyone who picks it up outside the home is very likely to give it to people at home anyway. My husband higher risk than me for various reasons but he’s the key worker so what can I do?

It must come back to ‘shield if you need to, stay/work from home if you can, stringent precautions when you do need to go out/go to work and wash your hands properly’.

Beyond that it’s still a bit like Russian roulette.

In our house i (female) am going to work (admin/first aider in a school) and doing the shopping as i am out any way and lower risk but i suspect if i get it, my dh will catch it from me.
But it does puzzle me the number of older couples where the men who are now shopping whilst their wives stay home.especially as the men tend to be a little older than their wives in that generation.

Pigeons is it because Women are more likely to have underlying auto immune issues? At a certain age I think women have much worse chronic health, but then stay at that level for far longer. Men's health seems to be a bit more volatile. I'm not using the right terminology- brains having a fuzzy day.

It was very quickly apparent that DH has no idea about infection control. We had a trial run with a sick 19yr old. DH needed to have everything spelled out to him. When he took food up, instead of leaving it on the table outside the door, he waltzed in, complained about the mess and brought the bin down to empty. Clueless.

picklemewalnuts - yes it could be. But i also think it os a gentlemanly /protective thing for some of the men that live thier wives. Its quite a horrid experience shopping right now.

My takeaway has also been that it's weight - and as someone on the cusp of morbid obesity I'm making sure I get out and walk 3-5km each day and do some kind of strength work in the house each day too - step away from the precipice.

DP meanwhile is doing the shopping because he's just not coping with being on lockdown, and he's not taking any exercise despite being a gym nut before because if he's not working, he's playing computer games.

I know mothers from school, and DP's colleagues. The mothers are all taking it seriously because they don't want to be sick or their kids to get sick. The men are generally being much more blaze about it all - despite the stats suggesting they're the ones at most risk.

What do you mean by men should stay in the house?
That is the current advice, unless essential.
Or are you suggesting restricting men further (no exercise for them, no shopping)?
The thing is, lock down isn't to stop people getting the virus so much as to stop it spreading.
I think both sexes may spread the virus equally (haven't heard anything to the contrary).
Or are you suggesting pulling men out of essential jobs?

There aren't more men out on the streets than women, certainly not far more.
I have seen more male workers such as construction workers, road workers and delivery drivers, but I guess women are more likely to be working behind closed doors in hospitals or care homes.

"But everyone is at risk (young women have died too)"

Really no. There is almost no risk to young people. Fewer (as a %) children die of covid-19 then flu. 5 deaths so far which is far less than would have died just crossing the road in normal circumstances. It's not something to worry about if you are say 25.

There is a steeply rising risk as you get older, even at say 40, compared to seasonal flu, but covid-19 is in fact not a significant killer of young people, and if it wasn't for it killing older working people age we'd probably be ignoring it, the same as we ignore seasonal flu.

"My takeaway has also been that it's weight"

It's not. People were gleefully blaming fat people, but it turns out that the number of people of healthy, overweight and obese is the same as expected by age demographics.

True there are more morbidly obese people in ICU, but that's not necessarily a risk factor for covid-19, more than being morbidly obese is a risk factor for morbidity generally and quite possibly dying WITH covid-19 as much as of it.

It does seem to hit medical workers very hard, even if they are young and have no underlying conditions. Something to do with them getting a higher viral load? (IANAD)

I imagine that many people are just glad of getting a little time on their own...while their partner either goes for a walk, or goes to the shops.

My husband is a lot older than me, in the 'vulnerable category, and last year has prostate cancer... ( now fully recovered), but he still gets out for a run every other morning...and is absolutely central in looking after our granddaughter.....who he takes out on her bike.

I do all of the supermarket shopping, because I actually like getting out too...and tend to do most of it anyway in 'normal' times. Even in spite of his daily exercise and walks out with grandchild, he is highly conscious about distancing when out.....

The idea that men, in general, should be restricted any more than women is not only over the top, but impractical and impossible for the nation as a whole. Individual 'bad' behaviour can be dealt with on an individual basis, if necessary.