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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scottish Government shelves GRA reform due to Covid-19

47 replies

polarisation · 01/04/2020 18:08

Just getting the gist of this just now, they're shelving bills that they can't deal with due to the pandemic, and the GRA is one of them. Election in 2021 so unlikely to be passed before the new parliament!

OP posts:
MingeofDeath · 02/04/2020 10:36

I bet there have been a lot of loud sighs of relief at Holyrood upon hearing this news.

Cuntysnark · 02/04/2020 10:48

Imnobody4 I agree. I just flicked onto sky and caught the tail end of an interview with 2 journalists. One was saying ‘identity politics is dead’. I only hope she’s right and that more journalists are finally waking up.

Lordfrontpaw · 02/04/2020 11:17

I'm still suspicious and remain on high alert absolutely - don't take your eyes off the buggers. There are people and businesses very heavily invested in this. It's not just individuals but business/pharma/lobby groups/sodding law firms...

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 02/04/2020 11:32

Imnobody4
I'm still suspicious and remain on high alert.
Absolutely- there are many people who are highly motivated to erode safeguarding.

Lordfrontpaw · 02/04/2020 11:37

It's big business I worry about - even kids tv channels are on the bandwagon, schools, etc - with 'charities' lobbying hard for access to promote this.

When I was a child - there was no way on gods green earth any of this wold float. So in the whole history of human evolution, this has just come up now? Same misogyny, different wrapper.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 02/04/2020 12:20

Oh yes a whole lot of people have created an industry to teach/brainwash/consult/lobby etc these aren’t going to pack up & go home unfortunately

koshkatt · 02/04/2020 12:40

It's rewinding the propaganda in schools and universities that needs addressing

This 100%.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 02/04/2020 14:29

Our schools and universities need a good hard look at. Not just gender bullshit, either. I expect this pandemic is going to have some very far reaching effects - some good ones as well as the obvious bad ones.

I am looking anew at the SNP in light of how they've handled this. Showing a breathtaking arrogance and disregard of democratic process with the actions of people like S.A. Somerville. And Sturgeon's curious approach to a 'consultation ' was also telling. I'm not anti or pro SNP, but I have growing concerns about their structure and methods.

skql · 02/04/2020 14:43

is salmond also pro self id?

stumbledin · 02/04/2020 14:49

In the statement I read last night it definitely says they are still committed to changing the GRA to make it easier for trans to self identify.

This is still the public position of the Scottish Government.

Which is different from the Tories sort of hoping to put the GRA on the back burner, whether or not there is a covid-19 crisis.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 02/04/2020 14:54

I think Salmond was absent from the scene before gender was actually invented, skql. So - no idea.

Justhadathought · 02/04/2020 14:55

Somehow I see the Covid crisis also putting independence, itself, on the back burner.....I suspect that the look and shape, and even existence of the EU, will look very different afterwards. The UK leaving was just the beginning.....Regional and world politics and economics could well look rather different fairly soon.

MoleSmokes · 04/04/2020 06:18

None of the articles say that the SNP has given up the ghost on this - there are self-contradictory statements in all the articles:

The BBC

" . . . the government said it was still "committed" to updating the law so that trans people could get a gender recognition certificate without "unnecessary stress".

The reforms had faced criticism from some quarters, including prominent SNP politicians and some government ministers, over how they could affect women-only services.

The government had been seeking to "build maximum consensus" around the plans."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-52119865

The Times

"The reforms to the Gender Recognition Act have been paused and will not resume during this parliamentary term, which is due to end by the Holyrood election in May next year."

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/389df99c-7460-11ea-be30-097bd8237f0d?shareToken=4d085f9f296340f4b916a8c4ec162413

The National

"Dey said . . . ministers will consider if these bills can be brought in the next parliamentary year, which is due to begin in September."

"Fellow Scottish Greens co-leader Patrick Harvie said: "Everyone will understand that neither the Government nor Parliament can carry on with business as usual in midst of the current crisis.

"However, it's deeply regrettable that progress will be halted when it comes to the environment, people's right to food, animal protections and not least the rights of trans people, for whom overdue legislative reform has been long promised by all parties."

He added: "We expect Government to deliver on their commitments when possible and appropriate, and will explore with all parties what can be done to achieve more progress."

  • - - - - - - - - -

Looking at the Consultation information, the Scottish Government has given itself plenty of scope to exclude publishing individual responses in their entirety, ie. rather than redacting them:

www.gov.scot/publications/gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill-consultation-scottish-government/pages/3/

1.11. Where respondents have given permission for their response to be made public responses will be made available to the public at consult.gov.scot. Before publishing the Scottish Government will need to check that responses do not contain material which:

Raises concerns about data protection (for example, a response which gives personal details about the person responding to the consultation or about another person);

Raises concerns about copyright (for example, a response which encloses an academic article which is or may be subject to copyright restrictions);

Is potentially defamatory (for example, a statement which could damage a person’s or an organisation’s reputation);

Is offensive (for example, contains transphobia or misogyny, uses swear words or contains language which is derogatory about an individual or a group in society);

Contains references to on-going court cases.

1.12. We will analyse all responses but we will not publish responses which contain material outlined above. Therefore, a response which raises concerns about data protection or raises concerns about copyright or is potentially defamatory or has offensive material or contains references to on-going court cases will not be published.

1.13. Following the closing date, all responses will be analysed and considered along with any other available evidence to help us. An analysis report will be made available. The Scottish Government’s intention is to introduce a Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill into Parliament during this current Parliamentary session (which ends in 2021).

  • - - - - - - - - -

Would any responses "rejected" for the above reasons still be available via FOI Request if respondents had said they were happy to have them made public?

It could give an undeservedly bad impression if an organisation or individual was listed as having responded but their response was omitted from publication.

1.08. If you respond using the consultation hub, you will be directed to the About You page before submitting your response. Please indicate how you wish your response to be handled and, in particular, whether you are content for your response to published. If you ask for your response not to be published, we will regard it as confidential, and we will treat it accordingly. The names of organisations responding to the consultation will be published.

1.09. All respondents should be aware that the Scottish Government is subject to the provisions of the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002 and would therefore have to consider any request made to it under the Act for information relating to responses made to this consultation exercise. All respondents are also asked to remember that this is a government consultation process and no matter how strong your views we ask that you use acceptable language to express them.

MoleSmokes · 04/04/2020 06:19

Drat! Missed out the link for the article in The National

www.thenational.scot/news/18350482.coronavirus-gra-reform-plans-shelved-scottish-government/

NonnyMouse1337 · 04/04/2020 08:50

The Scottish government have nailed the trans colours to the mast so they cannot publicly backtrack now. They have to keep saying they are committed to the cause, if only to save face. I'm sure many in the government and the SNP are breathing a sigh of relief for this bizarre stroke of luck. It's a very messy debate that no one would voluntarily get into.

However, none of us on the GC side can afford to be complacent. The trans lobby and their supporters are going nowhere, and like the Denton's report openly admitted, this lobby prefers to operate away from any media and public scrutiny, manipulating politicians in the background. So we need to be vigilant and ready to keep the debates and public awareness going once the immediate crisis around Covid-19 eases. The report admitted the trans lobby is most successful by sneaking in stuff and piggybacking on other more popular issues because they know how unpopular their propositions are on their own.
So in the coming months or years as economy and society is recovering from the ramifications of Covid-19, we should be scrutinising all sorts of policies and legislation to see what's being said in the fine print; what's being inserted when everyone is distracted and not looking.

We still have to confront all the public bodies that have jumped wholesale onto the trans lobby ship ahead of any legislation and in flagrant opposition of the Equality Act.

There's also the 2021 census.

stumbledin · 04/04/2020 16:49

NonnyMouse - exactly and need to do the same for UK Parliament.

They both maybe on the back burner for now but with so many in the establishment and national service providers already acting as though reforms have gone through it is going to be hard to get that changed.

Back burner may in fact meant that they think women will give up and go away and they will both be passed without any trouble as so many have bought into the trans agenda.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 04/04/2020 19:32

Not going anywhere. Not giving up. Pull!

WTFSeriously · 04/04/2020 20:09

Still need to keep an eye on this - the letter from SAS to the LGBT orgs who campaigned on this are still getting their invite to discuss consultation outcomes (after covid 19) and to work with officials on development of proposals.

We can't turn our backs for a second in this cos they'll continue behind closed doors as soon as this pandemic has passed.

Scottish Government shelves GRA reform due to Covid-19
Scottish Government shelves GRA reform due to Covid-19
ScrimpshawTheSecond · 04/04/2020 20:54

Has Somerville met with any women's groups yet, FPFW, forwomenscotland, etc? She said she would but then there seemed to be some difficulty actually doing so?

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 04/04/2020 20:55

And does anyone know if there's a group that is backing repeal of the GRA ?

Aesopfable · 04/04/2020 21:57

scrimpshaw not only did she say she would, didn't she also falsely claim in writing that she had?

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 05/04/2020 09:40

I think she met with someone who was a supporter of one of the women's groups and said that shed met with the group. Sort of like saying meeting with a Greenpeace member is akin to discussing directly with the NGO itself.
Somerville despises anyone who has issues or concerns with the GRA, it's apparent in her hostile demeanour when discussing the matter, even when doing her best to appear conciliatory. Not sure why, but fairly clear she won't ever be impartial on the matter.

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