36 year old woman dies of coronavirus after being deprioritized by emergency services: is race a factor?

[WombOfOnesOwn]

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/25/london-woman-36-dies-of-suspected-covid-19-after-being-told-she-is-not-priority

When I saw this story I couldn't help but wonder. I live in the US, where black women are at far higher risk during pregnancy, birth, and with illnesses and injuries because hospitals simply do not take their pain and suffering seriously.

Do you believe black women in the UK are potentially at greater risk in a pandemic situation where prioritization must occur? I think this will certainly occur in the US, and that younger black women will be ignored in favor of older white people, but I wanted to hear the British opinion -- maybe it is less dire there?

I had always hoped so, but this story made me so terribly sad. A mother of three -- I'm about to be a mother of three myself, and this story has made me think deeply about how much more terrifying this time must be for black women, who already know they are seen as lesser by many healthcare providers and must navigate without even their family to advocate for them in the hospital.

Yes, I do. I think it is going to get worse. I think it is more than racism, it is a culture of stereotyping race, class, culture, people with mental illness, homeless, unemployed. I think all this has got worse since Brexit and with the current state of social media, which encourages people to think that some pretty awful behaviour and attitudes are acceptable. Some groups of people are dehumanised.

No I do not. A very sad story, but I suspect both her symptoms at the time of examination and her age, were the overwhelming factors in the paramedics not admitting her to hospital.

I haven’t read the article so I’m not sure why the lady was de-prioritised and there could always be more to this story and her individual circumstances.
However, Black women in the UK are disadvantaged in many ways such as in pregnancy, labour, education, housing and health.

I think she was a victim of a struggling NHS. I don't think they left her at home because she was black, no.

You can't determine that from one case. If a trend develops then there might be a basis for it.

Having lived in the UK and the USA I think that age is far more likely to have been an issue than race.
That isn't to say that there aren't issues around race in the UK but the NHS staff are working to risk analysis protocols which would have suggested she was lower risk.

I think that class is as likely to have played a role as race. It permeates UK culture to an unimaginable degree.

Reading between the lines of the article they called paramedics at 8ish in the morning one day, next call to them (when she died) wasn't until 3 the next day. The description of symptoms of this illness is that you suddenly go down hill fast. So people may well be told "not a priority" but of course if they go downhill then another ambulance needs to be called.

No, I think that reading the report her condition deteriorated very suddenly. I think that the assessment of her the previous day could possibly have given clearer instructions on when to call an ambulance but many staff and doctors working in London from my experience are from many different races and I think that it’s unlikely that race was a factor in determining her admission to hospital.
Scarcity of beds and an increasing crisis situation is more important factor I would have thought.

My son has a condition which means he needs ambulance call outs quite regularly. Once they assess him sometimes it is a blue light job and sometimes they say he is fine for now but if he deteriorates ring back. I keep an eye out for the warning signs they have given me, ready to ring back if necessary.

The message shouldn't have been criticising the paramedics but of being prepared to call 999 again if someone deteriorates.

Having used the 111 service a few times in the past, I don’t ever recall being asked my ethnicity. So no, I don’t think that has anything to do with it.

Highly unlikely in London. At least half, if not more, of the healthcare staff won't be white. The workforce represents the diverse community. This terribly sad case is simply because it's a city of nearly 9 million people - many of whom will be living in high density housing tightly packed together. The lockdown may have happened in time to save much of the rest of the UK but London was always going to be more vulnerable. Emergency services there were struggling before Covid-19.

Having said that, there could be some structural racism at play. I suggested this (but didn't know the correct terminology "structural") on another thread about a week ago. The government's failure to enact stricter measures sooner, acting only after it was too late for London, could be viewed as structurally racist. The last census showed non white British background as a majority (more than 50%) in London. White British Londoners tend to be younger (and therefore less likely to have underlying conditions).

I think it extremely unlikely racism had anything to do with this. The first call was made at 8.30 a.m.

She was unwell and apparently getting worse the next day but her husband didn't call again until around 3p.m by which time it was too late.

I don't think this is a race issue. I think it's a covid 19 issue. People can deteriorate incredibly quickly and we have been told frequently that most people will only have a mild illness and it doesn't effect younger people as much. The paramedics made a judgment on her symptoms at the time they saw her and told to ring 111 or 999 if she deteriorated. I have had many situations where I have had to ring an ambulance only a few hours after being to the GP/A&E etc due to things escalating, and that wasn't with an unpredictable quick deterioration virus like covid 19 during a time of national crisis. I think this is just incredibly sad. It was approximately 36 hours from their visit and her death. People can go from healthy to dead incredibly quickly, whether at home or in hospital, and it's unclear whether intervention at that time would have changed anything. Paramedics have to make lots of quick assessments in high stress situations all the time, they can never get it right all of the time. But I don't think they were negligent and I don't think they were being racist

The government's failure to enact stricter measures sooner, acting only after it was too late for London, could be viewed as structurally racist. The last census showed non white British background as a majority (more than 50%) in London. White British Londoners tend to be younger (and therefore less likely to have underlying conditions)

I don't agree with that at all. I think the failure to shut down London was simply a failure to shut down what is one of the most important cities in the world and trying to avoid that city being shut down.

Your point about demographics is correct but ignores the fact that London also is home to some of the wealthiest people in the country, who will mainly be white. For example the almost entirely white and socio - economic group ABC1 audiences at The Royal Opera House were at much at risk as anyone else in London.

The failure to shut London down was because of the economic and social importance of London.

I can not speak to cultural bias around healthcare in the UK. I don't know enough to know if it's an issue. I will say that cultural bias is an issue in most places.

I really feel for her family. I hope if they hold an investigation they get the answers they are seeking.

The wealthy ones had the choice to leave. Many, despite outrage from locals elsewhere, did leave. I don't know how many super rich have stayed but if need be they would pay to be flown out immediately should they need medical treatment. Wealth buys health. Good housing, nutrition rich food - and enough of it. Poverty and poor quality housing are major factors in ill health. Whatever their reasoning for only iniating lockdown when Covid-19 threatened the rural Tory vote, the government would have known who in London would suffer the most - BAME communities, migrants, the elderly, the sick, and the disabled.

Trying to paint the ambulance service as racist when they are risking their lives to save people in a time of crisis (and all other times).
Typical guardian, full steam ahead smearing our welfare state.
C4 did the same thing recently with the fire service over Grenfell.
Discusting really, these pampered 'journalists' have no shame.

I don't mean to sound so political. I voted Conservative. No fan of Boris but Corbyn and Momentum scare me. I believe there was some structural racism in the government's failure to protect Londoners but possibly on a subconscious level rather than deliberate. Of course the London Ambulance Service isn't racist.

People can deteriorate rapidly with Covid so it can be hard to gauge severity especially when someone is so young. Avoiding unnecessary admission is also beneficial for the patient in some ways because hospitals are hotbeds for infections. It's extremely unlikely that racism played a part.

No I don’t and trying to blame the ambulance crew is hateful.

There could be a myriad of reasons, this virus is very unpredictable, she may have had an undiagnosed health condition, the second call wasn’t made soon enough, we don’t know.

What? Why on earth do you think they left the poor woman at home because she was black? In London which is very multicultural anyway? Such a sad story but you are looking to be offended I think.

Why does everything come down to racism? We are all people colour doesn’t come into it. If you want to blame anyone blame the selfish people out flaunting the rules over past couple of weeks.

Unlikely, for all the reasons outlined above.

• Racism is less of an issue in London than elsewhere in the UK (in my opinion).
• The NHS in London is, in my experience, more than 50% non-white. So more diverse than the community it serves, at least in terms of frontline staff.
• The NHS is struggling (as always) so does triage patients accordingly and not everyone will be taken to hospital.
• Rapid deterioration is characteristic of CoronaVirus.

Do not think so. After all that 21yr old white woman also died in similar circumstances.
Don’t start a race row now of all times.